You And Jesus Are Sons Of God

[ayed]

Hi, my forummates?how you doing ? i hope you are right.

In the name of Allah, the Most gracious,the Most merciful

Allah says:

“Say (O Muhammad --Peace be upon him): "He is Allâh, (the) One”,"Allâh-us-Samad (The Self-Sufficient Master, Whom all creatures need, He neither eats nor drinks)”, "He begets not, nor was He begotten;”, "And there is none co-equal or comparable unto Him"(112, 1:4)

“son of Allah” was Iesa’ language he was used to say figuratively in his speech.

the word”son” carries two meanings:

1-“sonship of guidance, of faith and nobelness” --the spiritual sonship.

For instance , as mentioned in Gospel :”sons of Satan , sons of snakes .. these words “sons”do not denote or even connote that people concerned are descenents of Satan or Snakes! No,these words describe those people who are as slippery , poisonous and dangerous as snakes in that they often lie and equivocate over others as Satan does.

Ascribing sons to Allah(the only God) connotes(for) : guidance , conciliation and practicing according to Allah’s holy books, following His teachings and worshipping Him ;relying on what He has commanded all His prophets and messengers to instruct their nations.

2-“sonship of parentage”:when a son is a part and a piece of his father.

Needless to say , one who is open-minded , rational , faithful and distinguishing between the Creator and His creatures is instantly comprehending that the (No.2) is definitely unsuitable and silly to be attributed to Allah or relating to Him.

It is blasphmeous and polytheistic to believe in or even say that there is sonship between Allah(God) and anyone of His poor creatures(Allah Is above all this)

If the phrase “son of Allah” alternates between “sonship of nobelness , of faith , of love” AND “sonship of parentage , of birth of partialness” then the phrase”son of Allah” is of ambiguity -- not entirely clear word.Thus, it should be judged by the entire clear word that carries only intrinsic semantic content.That is , mono-meaning which linguists and rational people do not disagree about the reality and core of its meaning.

”son of Allah” was repeatedly uttered in your books by the Christ meant only and only for #sonship of nobelness , holiness , sublimity and love# which doesn’t belong to and is irrelevant to the “sonship of parentage and birth ” at all :

1-Satan repeats himself addressing Iesa:“if you are the son of Allah(God)” is meant for sonship of guidance, of faith and nobelness.It is a sort of statement that “you , Iesa , are not a son of Allah”

“Father” is a word repeated many times by Iesa(Allah’s peace be upon him) expressing Allah as the Exalted Feeder Who feeds and waters His believeing worshippers not “sonship of parentage”

“Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became hungry. And the tempter came and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread." But He answered and said, "It is written, `man shall not live on bread lone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.' " Then the devil took Him into the holy city and had Him stand on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down; for it is written, `He will command His angels concerning you; and `on their hands they will bear you up, so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.' " Jesus said to him, "On the other hand, it is written, `you shall not put the Lord your God to the test.' " Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; and he said to him, "All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me." Then Jesus said to him, "Go, Satan! For it is written, `you shall worship the lord your God, and serve him only(Matthew 6:1~10)

Qs :

1-Does your God Iesa need food?Why did he fast?I fast , you fast,

2-Satan bullyed over Iesa though Iesa was(God as you believe) Why? was not he all-power God ,then why did Satan try to tempt him?Is Iesa unable to defend himself?No, for being mere a prophet secured and inspired by Allah , Iesa(Jesus -- peace be upon him) answered Satan’s questions without objecting.

3-Satan did not say :“O ! son of Allah” but said:

”IF you are the son of God” and confirming “He will command His angels concerning you (Allah)” Why?

You do know what type of tone is this!! It is a sort of challenge !Why did Satan say so?

Because Satan does know that Iesa would refuse to fulfill his orders based on what “it is written” by Allah:

--“you shall not put the Lord your God to the test”

--“you shall worship the lord your God”Moreover, Iesa is infallable .

In the Holy Qur’an:

-- "O Children of Israel! Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord" Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allâh, then Allâh has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode And for the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong­doers) there are no helpers” (Al-Maidah 5:72)

why didn’t Iesa(Jesus) object and command Satan saying “you shall worship ME”? it is your turn to answer and discover

Also you read the tone of “If you” as a challnege which connotes :

“If you ..but you are not” according to what “is written”( a prophet not God)

Allah has fulfilled the supplication of Maryam’s mother(Umran’s wife)when she asked Allah to secure Maryam and her descendents from Satan :

In Holy Qur’an :”

“Remember, when the wife of 'Imrân said: "O my Lord! I have vowed to You what (the child that) is in my womb to be dedicated for Your services (free from all worldly work; to serve Your Place of worship), so accept this, from me Verily, You are the All-Hearer, the All-Knowing">>> Then when she delivered her [child Maryam (Mary)], she said: "O my Lord! I have delivered a female child," - and Allâh knew better what she delivered, - "And the male is not like the female, and I have named her Maryam (Mary), and I seek refuge with You (Allâh) for her and for her offspring from Shaitan (Satan), the outcast"(Al-Umran 3 :35~36)

4-Assuming that Iesa is a God, why Satan dares saying that?Is a God needs to be secured by angels?if Iesa possesses all the kingdom of the world , then why Satan defies , bullies and regads All kindoms of the world as favour upon Iesa?if Iesa is a God or a son of Allah, then he would say :go away , Satn, I am its possessor , its creator , its mine and it is under my control!!then Satan would not dared asking the God to fall down and worhsip him!!I am sure that you have the answers .

5-Conclusion :

according to your dogma , beliefs and what you are taught at Church , Iesa(Jesus)says that you are sons of Allah as follows:

:“Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven(Matthew 5: 6)

“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect(Matthew 5: 48)

“For all these things the nations of the world eagerly seek; but your Father knows that you need these things.(Luke 12: 32)

“Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom(Luke 12: 52)

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven”(Matthew 6:1)

“so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you”(Matthew 6:4)

I sum it up :

If Iesa(Jesus) is a son of Allah, then you are sons of Allah,

If you say “No”, you negate that Iesa is not a son of Allah .Moreover, he is a liar and fabricator(Iesa above all this)

May I cite more verses from your holy books?

Let me read your dear comments.

Thank you for your reading ,

Ayed , :)

[Kathryn]

Ayed:

Qs :

    1-Does your God Iesa need food?Why did he fast?I fast , you fast, 

Catholics believe in one God___the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. The Son, Jesus Christ, true God and true man, became man to Redeem us. He ate and needed food because he was a true man, while at the same time true God. He humbled Himself out of love for us. He suffered, died, and was buried as a true man. Yet He also, raised Himself from the dead, and Redeemed all mankind, only possible because He is also true God.

Why don’t you ask one question per thread and we can go into depth with each question. I believe the rules of the forum dictate one question at a time.

God Bless

Edited August 22, 2003 by Kathryn

[Aloysius]

May I cite more verses from your holy books?

~Ayed

wit a protestant it might be easy to just do that. But with a Catholic, we can very simply answer "Our Church interprets that differently, our Church is guided by the Holy Spirit"

that's all we need say in response to what you might interpret from Holy Scripture

Pax et Amo Christi!

<peace and love of Christ>

i just got a question 2 ask. what do u think of my signature? the prayer of St. Francis. would that be a good prayer for a muslim? i donno, it doesn't seem to contradict Islam in any way i can see.

[ayed]

thank you , Kathryn and Aloysius for your comments.

only two dear forummates commented out of 47 viewers!!

I need more comments ,

[ayed]

thank you , Kathryn and Aloysius for your comments.

only two dear forummates commented out of 47 viewers!!

I need more comments ,

ayed, :)

[Jake Huether]

1-Does your God Iesa need food?Why did he fast?I fast , you fast,

Christ, that is God the Son, humbled himself to become a human, like us in every way but sin. Sure, Christ could have not eaten, he might not have walked if he wanted, he could have done whatever he wanted. But out of humility and concern for us, he did what we do. He was our supreme example, in the flesh. Would it be an example to us if Jesus never ate? How could Jesus set examples for us that we ourselves could never do! Christ only showed us what we ourselves are capable of.

He gave us the perfect example of how to live a HUMAN life - although he himself was God.

2-Satan bullyed over Iesa though Iesa was(God as you believe) Why? was not he all-power God ,then why did Satan try to tempt him?Is Iesa unable to defend himself?No, for being mere a prophet secured and inspired by Allah , Iesa(Jesus -- peace be upon him) answered Satan’s questions without objecting.

First of all, Satan didn't "bully oever Iesa". He tried his hardes. But if you read on... Jesus was not overcome. Jesus did not give in. He was tempted, like us. But UNlike us, he did NOT give into the temptation. Again, he set the perfect example for us.

3-Satan did not say :“O ! son of Allah” but said:

”IF you are the son of God” and confirming “He will command His angels concerning you (Allah)” Why?

You do know what type of tone is this!! It is a sort of challenge !Why did Satan say so?

Because Satan does know that Iesa would refuse to fulfill his orders based on what “it is written” by Allah:

--“you shall not put the Lord your God to the test”

--“you shall worship the lord your God”Moreover, Iesa is infallable .

The purpose for Satans banishment from heaven in the first place was his Pride. He had already "tempted" God before, wishing him to bow down. Satan, a creature, placed himself above God. When he tempted Jesus, it was no different. Satan was merely trying to make God bow down to him again, and Jesus did NOT. Jesus sent him away, similar to how he was sent away before.

In the Holy Qur’an:

-- "O Children of Israel! Worship Allâh, my Lord and your Lord" Verily, whosoever sets up partners in worship with Allâh, then Allâh has forbidden Paradise for him, and the Fire will be his abode And for the Zâlimûn (polytheists and wrong­doers) there are no helpers” (Al-Maidah 5:72)

By "partners in worship" I assume you mean, "equals" in worship. But again, I say to you, God the FAther, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are ONE, they aren't "parners". They are ONE IN BEING. Just like I am ONE IN BEING. Yet unlike me, they are 3 persons. I am one person, one being. He is 3 persons, ONE BEING. ONE GOD. ONE CREATOR. Father, Son, Holy Spirit, for ever.

why didn’t Iesa(Jesus) object and command Satan saying “you shall worship ME”?

Because that was NOT Jesus' mission on earth. His mission was not to become king. He could have. In the Gospel of John we note that one one occasion (after he multiplied the loaves and fishes) the people came after him to make him king. But he hid himself!

Jesus' mission was to show US how to serve. He came to show us humility, kindness, LOVE. He came to show us how to be humans, how to live as humans need to.

God had already commanded all of us to worship him (therefore to worship Jesus, the Son) when he gave the first Commandment on Mount Sini (sp?). And Satan KNEW this command. But God also gave his creation (angles and humans) a free will. Satan FREELY rejects God's command to worship him. That is way Satan is Satan. If Jesus Commanded him to worship him, it would be simply repeating old news.

Also you read the tone of “If you” as a challnege which connotes :

“If you ..but you are not” according to what “is written”( a prophet not God)

Allah has fulfilled the supplication of Maryam’s mother(Umran’s wife)when she asked Allah to secure Maryam and her descendents from Satan :

First of all, it is impossible to read "tone", which is why the Bible is inerrant, not infallible. It contains no errors. But when humans read it and make their own interpritations of it, then it is wrong. The tone that you have "read" is not correct.

It isn't "If you...but you are not". It is "If you... But you will not". Jesus IS God. And he could have simply breathed on Satan and eliminated him from eternity. God can destroy and eliminate anything he wants. But yet he didn't. Why would Jesus need to prove to Satan that He is God, when Satan already knows that. I don't need to prove my humanity to you. You know I'm a human. So, why would God have to prove his Divinity to Satan (who he had created!). Satan knows his maker. He simply wants to test him, like I sometimes test my dad! But God, in his great wisdom, had desided to allow Satan to rule this world (and we know he is from what we see). But when Jesus comes again in Glory, he will cast Satan into the LAKE of FIRE FOREVER, along with all who have severed themselves from God.

In Holy Qur’an :”

“Remember, when the wife of 'Imrân said: "O my Lord! I have vowed to You what (the child that) is in my womb to be dedicated for Your services (free from all worldly work; to serve Your Place of worship), so accept this, from me Verily, You are the All-Hearer, the All-Knowing">>> Then when she delivered her [child Maryam (Mary)], she said: "O my Lord! I have delivered a female child," - and Allâh knew better what she delivered, - "And the male is not like the female, and I have named her Maryam (Mary), and I seek refuge with You (Allâh) for her and for her offspring from Shaitan (Satan), the outcast"(Al-Umran 3 :35~36)

Okay,... I don't really get your point. Sorry...

4-Assuming that Iesa is a God, why Satan dares saying that?Is a God needs to be secured by angels?

God doesn't NEED to be secured by angels... But we know that he WANTS to be. Why would God send an angle to Mary, or to Joseph? He did! But He didn't need to. He just WANTED to.

if Iesa possesses all the kingdom of the world , then why Satan defies , bullies and regads All kindoms of the world as favour upon Iesa?

God doesn't "possess" all the kingdoms of the world. He made them, but he does NOT possess them. The ONLY kingdom that God created and possesses (by His Will) is the kingdom of Heaven.

Satan knows they are from God... But he refuses to submit to God. God has given this world over to Satan (in his wisdom - we know not why yet). But remember in Johns Gospel, Jesus said, "you are not of this world", "this world does not know me".

It's like if I gave you a car, and then you tempted me, "I'll give you my car". THe World was made by God (Father Son and Holy Spirit). But it is now owned by Satan.

The kingdoms on earth are ruled by Satan, because the humans that rule are tempted by him and give into his temptation.

So, when Satan said, I will give you the kingdoms, he essentially said, "I will no longer tempt the humans". But Jesus would NOT submit to the will of Satan.

if Iesa is a God or a son of Allah, then he would say :go away , Satn, I am its possessor , its creator , its mine and it is under my control!!then Satan would not dared asking the God to fall down and worhsip him!!I am sure that you have the answers .

Jesus did say "Go away". He didn't need to continue, "I am its possessor, etc. etc." Satan knows that.

5-Conclusion :

according to your dogma , beliefs and what you are taught at Church , Iesa(Jesus)says that you are sons of Allah as follows:

:“Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven(Matthew 5: 6)

“Therefore you are to be perfect, as your heavenly Father is perfect(Matthew 5: 48)

“For all these things the nations of the world eagerly seek; but your Father knows that you need these things.(Luke 12: 32)

“Do not be afraid, little flock, for your Father has chosen gladly to give you the kingdom(Luke 12: 52)

“Beware of practicing your righteousness before men to be noticed by them; otherwise you have no reward with your Father who is in heaven”(Matthew 6:1)

“so that your giving will be in secret; and your Father who sees what is done in secret will reward you”(Matthew 6:4)

I sum it up :

If Iesa(Jesus) is a son of Allah, then you are sons of Allah,

If you say “No”, you negate that Iesa is not a son of Allah .Moreover, he is a liar and fabricator(Iesa above all this)

We are sons of God, in that HE MADE US. We understand in what context he calls us His sons. And we know in what context we call him our Father.

It is different for the Son, Jesus. The Son of God is TRUE GOD TRUE MAN. Jesus is God, we are NOT God.

There is no comparison, because we cannot create. But the best analogy would be this:

An inventor comes up with an idea, and makes his idea a reality (say - Henry Ford and the Car). So, the car is Henry's "son", his brain child. It represents his thoughts, what he had hoped for in a creation. But Henry's car cannot be compared to his own child. While both are considered Henry's "children". Only one partakes in his humanity.

While we are God's children, and while Jesus is God the Father's Son, ONLY Jesus partakes in The Father's Divinity. He is THE Son. We are merely sons.

Edited: Just wanted to clarify - Jesus is the Son, but to be the "Son" doesn't mean that He was created. The Son is simply the Son of the Father. And the Holy Spirit is the Love that is between the Father and the Son. ONE GOD. That's just how God is. Not MADE, just IS... We cannot presume to EVER understand this. But this is what God has revealed to us.