Success In The World

[Gabriela]

I'm not sure if this is the right phorum to post this in, but it's something I've been thinking about for a while. How is it possible these days to succeed in the world while retaining Christian modesty? Pretty much every career you could possibly have is going to require you to "promote yourself", "advocate for yourself", "stand up for yourself", etc. Isn't this antithetical to true humility?

Edited April 16, 2013 by curiousing

[arfink]

Having marketable skills and being honest about them is not prideful. :)

 

It would in fact be pride to say "Oh, I am not very good at _insert thing I am actually good at here_" because you're diminishing the dignity and skills God gave to you.

 

Self promotion can end in pride, but it's not in itself sinful.

[Spem in alium]

It would in fact be pride to say "Oh, I am not very good at _insert thing I am actually good at here_" because you're diminishing the dignity and skills God gave to you.

 

Exactly. Doing that kind of thing is just a way of asking outright for praise and for compliment, which is not humble. I think true humility involves accepting your strengths along with your weaknesses. You can still advocate your true talents and be humble.

[arfink]

Exactly. Doing that kind of thing is just a way of asking outright for praise and for compliment, which is not humble. I think true humility involves accepting your strengths along with your weaknesses. You can still advocate your true talents and be humble.

 

Well, I understand that some people call that "fishing for compliments" and I would say it fits the more well-known paradigm of pride.

 

However, many people genuinely mean that, and turn away all compliments on principle. This is also pride. Humility walks the middle road, accepting nothing more than or less than the truth.

[Noel's angel]

It is important to note that some people will say 'no I'm not good at...' even though they are good at it, because they may have anxieties/fears that perhaps they aren't good at it. It isn't always a case of fishing for compliments.

[MIKolbe]

I'm not sure if this is the right phorum to post this in, but it's something I've been thinking about for a while. How is it possible these days to succeed in the world while retaining Christian modesty? Pretty much every career you could possibly have is going to require you to "promote yourself", "advocate for yourself", "stand up for yourself", etc. Isn't this antithetical to true humility?

I do not think it is antithetical to true humility.

 

At the same time, I do not think a diet of meat is antithetical to a good diet...but if that is all one eats, especially opting for 48 oz. ribeye steaks 6 nights a week and a bacon casserole the 7th..obviously this would not be healthy.

 

There are many times I've had to advocate for myself and promote myself... especially when I lost my job and needed a new one..when I wanted a raise...and the like. 

 

But even take the instances where one would talk about a raise, do you overstate your achievements?  Do you downplay your team members to enhance your 'case'?  All these *could* be seen as promoting oneself...  In this case, I think that's wrong.  If you deserve a raise, it should be rather easy to argue without having to resort to things like what was previously stated....

 

Perhaps one could make an argument by not standing up/promoting/advocating for yourself you are not stewarding nor respecting the gifts you were given in the first place, but rather buried them in the dirt (ala the parable of the talents)...

 

Good question, though.. with alot to think and pray about....

[Tufsoles]

There is nothing wrong with promoting yourself or standing up for yourself. It can turn prideful but use correctly it can be fruitful. See MIkolbe example. I have done the same thing that he has to get a job and Like him I was modest, reasonable, and able to be open to other options(negotiable). Like MIkolbe said  be Steward or respect the gifts that god has given you.  

[AshleyReid]

Sometimes having a clear head and focusing towards the goal is all you need to achieve success, simply promoting yourself is not going to help in any way and make sure pride does not get in your way.

[Papist]

I think the key is to be who God made you to be. To be that person (and follow that path) to its fullest. If it produces recognition and accolades, including fame/wealth/etc, we must remain humble and recognize all this is God's glory, not ours.  I believe that the gifts God gives me is not for me. This one of the reasons I love the movie Chariots of Fire and the life of Eric Liddell.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGc9pWan-FY

[Gabriela]

Sometimes having a clear head and focusing towards the goal is all you need to achieve success, simply promoting yourself is not going to help in any way and make sure pride does not get in your way.

 

Hi, AshleyReid! Welcome to PM! I'm honored you made your first post in my thread! :-)

[Gabriela]

If promoting yourself isn't antithetical to true humility, then how do we reconcile books like the Imitation with modern careers? I've never understood those claims one often hears from Medievals, that one ought to think oneself the worst of one's brethren, not defend oneself, think only of one's faults, etc. Granted, such books were written for monastics, but they seem to be written to help one attain a deep, thorough humility. Yet, this doesn't seem possible in the world.

 

And at the same time, it seems like it may lead to dishonesty, when, for example, I know that I am not the worst of my brethren. Ok, so I shouldn't be "judging" my brethren, but sometimes, you know, you just know you're not the worst! Should I insist that I am anyway? And if not defending myself might lead to an injustice, is it better still that I not defend myself in order to learn humility than it is to prevent the injustice? Does the answer to that maybe depend on my motivations? And if thinking only of my faults causes me to be depressed, ought I perhaps not to think so awfully of myself in order to be cheerful?

 

You see what I'm getting at?

[BarbTherese]

My two cents - I think all is centred in motivation, in the heart.  If I genuinely feel that I am less than others, to state it.  If I genuinely feel I have some talent, then to state it.  Humility is all about Truth and true humility will see Truth with ever increasing clarity - and one of the highest Truths of all is that God is responsible and the source of all goodness and gift in life, small or great, and the recipient only the one who receives that gratuitious gift.  Not one is worthy of any gift whatsoever from God.  Humility in truth in itself is a gratuitious gift of God that only He can grant.  God is indeed the alpha and the omega of the virtuously humble.  They 'see' God as the source (alpha) of goodness and gift and return it to Him as it's end (omega) by acknowledging Him as source.  All this may not be necessarily obvious to human appearances, it is a disposition of the heart.  "Man judges appearances, but The Lord knows the heart"

 

There is difference between judging, which implies also penalty, and assessing where another may fit into one's lie and why.  We all need to assess as we journey through life.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

the heart of the matter. promoting ones self in the hope of greater glory for the kingdom of heaven wouldn't be bad, but promoting oneself for mushy feelings and compliments may be so. Promoting oneself for the betterment of the community is not self indulgent because you are not only thinking of yourself but of others to, but it is ok to include self in communal thinking because you count too and you are part of that community, sometimes right and sometimes wrong i'm sure. :)

 

 

Onward christian souls.

JESUS iz LORD.

Edited April 19, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[ChristinaTherese]

If promoting yourself isn't antithetical to true humility, then how do we reconcile books like the Imitation with modern careers? I've never understood those claims one often hears from Medievals, that one ought to think oneself the worst of one's brethren, not defend oneself, think only of one's faults, etc. Granted, such books were written for monastics, but they seem to be written to help one attain a deep, thorough humility. Yet, this doesn't seem possible in the world.

 

And at the same time, it seems like it may lead to dishonesty, when, for example, I know that I am not the worst of my brethren. Ok, so I shouldn't be "judging" my brethren, but sometimes, you know, you just know you're not the worst! Should I insist that I am anyway? And if not defending myself might lead to an injustice, is it better still that I not defend myself in order to learn humility than it is to prevent the injustice? Does the answer to that maybe depend on my motivations? And if thinking only of my faults causes me to be depressed, ought I perhaps not to think so awfully of myself in order to be cheerful?

 

You see what I'm getting at?

I think that thinking oneself the worst of one's brethren is akin to thinking the best of them and being willing to see the faults in oneself.