Voices Of The Faithful? (votf)

[Anna]

[quote name='PedroX' date='May 28 2004, 04:18 PM'] Voice of the Faithful is quite literally the Smoke of Satan that has entered the Church. Stay as far away from them as you can.

St. Michael the Archangel defend us in battle!

peace... [/quote]
Amen, PedroX.

Who else do you know that goes after the wounded of the flock, and poisons their minds against Church teachings at the same time.

Even if this group began with a noble intent, the agenda has become perverted.

Satan's goal is to rob souls. VOTF is a pretty useful tool, during this time of scandal and pain among the flock.

VOTF doesn't sound like fellow sheep in the fold; more like wolves in sheep's clothing!

Pax Christi. <><

[p0lar_bear]

[quote name='Sinner' date='May 29 2004, 03:16 AM'] So what to do about this stuff when it is tolerated, and maybe even supported by your Priest or Priests in nearby Parishes? I get invitations to their meetings by email, they have announcements in the Parish bulletin..... a nearby Parish is having a talk supported by them given by a Priest I love who was himself abused in the past. It is so tempting to say something in an email.....thus far I pray.
sigh........ [/quote]
Well, contacting the organization itself probably won't be very effective. Some who have gone to some meetings to present a more orthodox view have not been allowed to speak or ask questions, so that may not be helpful either.

I think your best bet is to gather information (such as phatcatholic's posts) about the organization and set up a meeting with your pastor to explain why you don't think this is a good organization for the parish to support. You could also do this with the priest you like who was speaking. If your pastor dismisses your concerns, you may also consider contacting your diocesan offices. Some bishops have fobidden VOTF groups from meeting on church property or advertising in bulletins, so you might get support from the diocese even if the pastor is not responsive.

I don't know a lot about Faithful Voice, but you may see about starting an orthodox alternative to VOTF, so people who want to respond to the crisis and scandal have someplace to go without turning to those who are seeking to destroy the Church.

[Brother Adam]

pOlar_bear,

It's my understanding that if the diocese even were to turn a blind eye, you could continue taking the matter up higher and higher, even to Rome itself?

[jasJis]

[quote name='Brother Adam' date='May 29 2004, 08:58 AM'] pOlar_bear,

It's my understanding that if the diocese even were to turn a blind eye, you could continue taking the matter up higher and higher, even to Rome itself? [/quote]
Adam,
Yes, above the Diocese, is the ArchDiocese. Then there is a Province, such as the Province of Florida Diocese. Then there is the US Council of Catholic Bishops.

But don't assume the Diocese is turning a blind eye to it. Diocese are big organizations. The Bishop has people who attend to some of these things. From experience, sometimes it takes a little while for things to occur. The Church does not usually take the quickest route because it desires to carefully consider all the extenuating circumstances.

The best recommendation is the call to the parishioners to seek to discuss this with their pastor. For the parishioners to seek orthodox organizations. In this case, don't victims of abuse need support? Shouldn't parishes reach out? Shouldn't parishioners get more involved in their parish? If one has VOTF meetings happening, it seems awful just shutting it down because of their mixed agenda. Putting your talents to work WITHIN the Church with an alternative seems to be the choice Christians should take. It always struck me as lazy when people complain about some organization doing something wrong when they know there are alternative actions they can take to correct what's wrong but it takes more time and effort than writing a letter.

[Dave]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='May 28 2004, 03:33 PM'] thanks for the link dave!

that site is basically a huge resource of articles against VOTF.........good stuff [/quote]
You're quite welcome, bro.

[Aloysius]

i'm real confused... cuz they keep sendin me crazy emails and stuff that are all pro-life and anti-homosexual-marriage and stuff... are they just blatantly lying about their position?

[cmotherofpirl]

They are telling you part of their position.
The part they are not mentioning is the fact they want to remake the Church in their own image.
Satan always inserts truth somewhere in his lies.

[p0lar_bear]

Al,

Actually, they might not support abortion or gay marriage, so they aren't necessarily lying. The problem is they do support a democratic Church, women in the priesthood, contraception, etc. Being right on a couple of things doesn't mean the organization is good.

[Aloysius]

i listened to some debate between the cofounder of VOTF and some Call To Action person, and the cofounder of VOTF was anti-contraception as well. He also had alot of fidelity, calling upon the teaching of the Church alot and calling it infallible, including the teaching of Humanae Vitae.

I guess all that means is not everyone in VOTF is bad, right?

[p0lar_bear]

Al,

Not everyone who joins VOTF is bad, most are probably just looking for some avenue to try to respond to the abuse crisis.

However, I'm reticent to consider any of the national leaders as faithful or orthodox. I may have been wrong on the contraception issue (I thought I had read a statement to that effect, but I can't always keep it all straight). Even so, here are three quotes from national leaders:

[quote]A "changed Church" would have a broader base of power with checks and balances, and would be much stronger. If conservative, moderate, and liberal faithful were able to agree on a constitution for democratic representation of the views of the faithful, strong supports could be added to the Church. Laity speaking for a democratic institution could participate with the clergy in the balanced exercise of executive, legislative, and judicial power. James E. Muller, M.D., at the 2002 Conference, July 20, 2002 [url="http://www.votf.org/Convention/muller.html"]http://www.votf.org/Convention/muller.html[/url][/quote]

[quote]For centuries, the only form of government most people knew was monarchy. Even today there are countries throughout the world that are either monarchies or dictatorships. But the Church is not any ordinary society. Although its temporal leadership could perhaps conceive of no other form than monarchy it is entirely possible that God's vision was more expansive. If we listen to the words of Christ and especially learn from his actions, we see looming up that word that strikes fear and trembling in churchmen .... democracy! Why? Because it surely is evident that this was the reality that Christ lived by in his ministry. Why the fear and trepidation? Because to accept democracy means to shed the deep seated misconception that to serve means to control. Fr. Thomas Doyle, at the 2002 Conference, [url="http://www.votf.org/Convention/tomdoyle.html"]http://www.votf.org/Convention/tomdoyle.html[/url][/quote]

[quote]
“Leader dismayed at active opposition
By Michael Paulson, Globe Staff  |  May 11, 2004

WINCHESTER -- The president of Voice of the Faithful, a lay organization that has studiously avoided wading into debates over social issues, last night criticized the active role bishops have played in opposing same-sex marriage.

"We look with dismay at bishops who openly criticize the homosexual community and criticize gay rights," James E. Post, the organization's president, told about 150 people at a Voice of the Faithful meeting at St. Eulalia Church in Winchester.

In an interview afterward, Post told reporters, It is discouraging to see the archbishop using archdiocesan resources to run this campaign against gay marriage and to speak out in a way that is so divisive.*

Post said Voice of the Faithful, which claims 35,000 members nationwide, has not taken a position on same-sex marriage, and said "it's not our issue."

But, Post said, it was important to speak out because we can't do our work without acknowledging the deterioration in the environment in the Catholic Church.*”
[url="http://www.faithfulvoice.com/social.htm"]http://www.faithfulvoice.com/social.htm[/url][/quote]

In addition, at the Mass at the 2002 Convention, the priest celebrant made comments supporting women in the priesthood. (I don't have the exact quotes with me right now).

A number of the people who have been invited to speak at meetings throughout the US are people known for strongly supporting views contrary to the Church.

[jasJis]

Envoy magazine had a great article about VOTF about a year ago. Maybe you could search on-line. Basically, the organization of VOTF was taken over by more radical elements than what the organization was started with. It's a clear case of more politicaly astute persons taking over an organization for their own purposes and agenda. They do support women priests and having the lay choose pastors and Bishops. I think they are heading in the wrong direction. The lay should take over more of the secular/administrative duties in a parish and let the priests be ministers, but we shouldn't muck about in the Sacramental roles and responsibilities of priests and Bishops.