CatholicsAreKewl Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 So I was wondering if anyone could prove to me that Mary was not God. I talked to my church pastor and he seems to agree with me that there is a high chance that Mary was divine (sinless, mother of Christ, miracles). I personally think that was the third secret BUT I'm not debating what it actually was. I'm just wondering if any of you can actually prove she isn't also God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 :twitch: This is not how things work- we do not have to prove negatives. Besides that, no. Just no. No no no no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffboom Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 So she is not divine? How could a mere human never sin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicsAreKewl Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 :twitch: This is not how things work- we do not have to prove negatives. Besides that, no. Just no. No no no no. That sounds like an Atheistic argument to me... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Whoa, what is going on here? Are we getting tag-teamed? Burden of proof. Your move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicsAreKewl Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 Whoa, what is going on here? Are we getting tag-teamed? Burden of proof. Your move. Did you argue with an atheist lately and steal that from him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffboom Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 So there must be some intermediate between divine and human... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Did you argue with an atheist lately and steal that from him? I will be up probably until 4-6am. I can wait literally all day and then some. Your. Move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 So there must be some intermediate between divine and human... According to whom and for what reason? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicsAreKewl Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 I will be up probably until 4-6am. I can wait literally all day and then some. Your. Move. Your argument is weak and is also used to disprove God. If you can prove God existed, then I will prove Mary was divine. Some things need faith and reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Your argument is weak and is also used to disprove God. If you can prove God existed, then I will prove Mary was divine. Some things need faith and reason. I have made no argument whatsoever. I am simply indicating that the burden of proof is yours, and we will not proceed otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffboom Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Well, Jesus was completely divine and completely human. He never sinned. All other humans are sinners. Except Mary. So was she human or a combination of human divine like Jesus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicsAreKewl Posted April 14, 2013 Author Share Posted April 14, 2013 The particular importance of Kolbe's approach is the way it suggests a possible integration of mariology with trinitarian theology by identifying Mary's mission so closely with that of the Spirit in the world. But this mission is concerned with the very purpose of the Incarnation. God became man so that man could become God. This formulation of St Athanasius, much used by the early Church Fathers, seems to us in the modern West perhaps dangerously bold, though it is perfectly scriptural.[23]"Beloved, we are God's children now; it does not yet appear what we shall be, but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is" (1 John 3:2). The goal of our earthly existence is to become in the end, as the Blessed Virgin Mary was from the beginning, "like him", by becoming "full of grace". And this theosis, this deification, comes about through the Holy Spirit. As the Catechismsays (quoting St Athanasius), God "gave himself to us through his Spirit. By the participation of the Spirit, we become communicants in the divine nature.... For this reason, those in whom the Spirit dwells are divinized" (n. 1988). Not only is Mary, as the one in whom the Spirit dwells par excellence, the prime example of a creature divinized by the grace of the Spirit, but she makes possible the divinization of others. http://www.christendom-awake.org/pages/faithcul/theosis.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Well, Jesus was completely divine and completely human. He never sinned. All other humans are sinners. Except Mary. So was she human or a combination of human divine like Jesus? Mary was saved from sin by an extraordinary gift from God, such that she could bear God the Son. She was not divine. She was saved by Christ, whom she bore, in a particularly intimate way that prepared her for her role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 I fully affirm the traditional doctrine of theosis. It does not mean Mary was divine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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