Do Charisms Fade With Time?

[God's Beloved]

Thanks to each one of you for the information.

 

Charisms are given for the sake of the community. The entire church is on a pilgrim journey where no one is static but moving forward.All vocations are supposed to walk together in harmony. In this light i wonder whether there are charisms that have not been adapted  to the times.

 

There is also gender-bias in the history of the church. So some of the non-essential elements in various vocations do need to be updated by women .

[To Jesus Through Mary]

Thanks to each one of you for the information.

 

Charisms are given for the sake of the community. The entire church is on a pilgrim journey where no one is static but moving forward.All vocations are supposed to walk together in harmony. In this light i wonder whether there are charisms that have not been adapted  to the times.

 

There is also gender-bias in the history of the church. So some of the non-essential elements in various vocations do need to be updated by women .

 

Charisms are not given for the sake of the community, but by the Holy Spirit for the sake of the Church. The people are draw to a community because of the charism. Not the other way around.

 

There will never be women priests. Doctrine cannot change. That has nothing to do with gender-bias history. Women have a beautiful and vital role in the Church but it is not to be priests. This video has a great explanation as to why. 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GfGJs-iFtS8

[ChristinaTherese]

More about cloisters and why enclosure is so beautiful and wonderful and necessary and women are truly called there:

 

"If Christ's love is the enclosure wall (and we know that it is, for He has said that "My beloved is a garden enclosed"), He encloses you; He is the enclosure. So it is the most spacious place in all the world." - from a conference by Mother Mary Francis, PCC

 

"In your solemn vow of enclosure, your alms-giving is the alms of a soul that is able to fly free because it is unfettered by any need. It is to reach out from the enclosure to move the whole world because you are immersed in Christ. And whereas some think that we are immured behind walls, we know the walls  as simply a beautiful expression of our immersion in Christ our Lord. When we are immersed in Christ our Lord in our vow of enclosure, then the soul flies free to minister to all. In your vow of enclosure you give the grace of pilgrimage to the whole world because you have already found the shrine within. Yes, you are pilgrims and strangers, but ones always returning to the shrine within; you know the way. You are in via, you are indeed "on the way," a way you know because you understand where the shrine is located. And so you reach out this alms to the world. You are always turning back to discover the shrine, always traveling back to the eternal stillness of God within. So give your soul, your very essence, be being simply His and having only God as your "apostolate." It is a large field of endeavor." - from a conference by Mother Mary Francis, PCC

 

"We see in Good Friday the image of our holy vow of enclosure. Jesus was fastened down in a very small space. We are called by Him to live in a very small space. But He redeemed the world in a yet smaller space. With His hands and feet fastened so that He could not walk, He could not reach, He accomplished the redemption of the world. You see there our precious vow. One does not need a large space to do great things. The greatest act that was ever done was accomplished in the smallest space. And so, let our vow of enclosure be large! May it make us large. May it make us as free as He was when He was not only confined by His own divine choice but was even nailed there. Yet, no one was ever so free. Ho greater act was ever accomplished than this act, nor in so small a space. May we show to the world in those mysterious ways through which God will proclaim this manifestation that it needs only a small space to accomplish the greatest of all work, which is the surrender, the complete surrender of the creature to its God, of the bride to her Bridegroom, of the Church to Christ." - from a conference by Mother Mary Francis, PCC

 

"It is only in surrendering all things that we own everything. It is only by leaving the world that we are sufficiently purified to take the whole world to our hearts. The unique vocation of the cloistered contemplative is to be entirely dedicated to the service of mankind because she is utterly given to God. Because her every breath and action are directed, without any antermediary activity as such, to the Most Holy Trinity, she should be more perfectly attuned to the vast hum of creation, to its song of joy and the groan of its anguish. This no one has the real interests of the world more at heart than the genuine contemplative. She is called to be the mother of all the world. Her enclosed, virginal life is fecund with blessings for humanity." - from A RIGHT TO BE MERRY by Mother Mary Francis, PCC

 

"St. Clare did indeed have a missionary heart. That is why she entered the cloister, to be a missionary to all the world. Any daughter of hers who is not a missionary at heart is in danger of hearing hard words from her Seraphic Mother when she meets her after death: "Nescio te!" -- "I know you not!" The enclosed life is the most ancient form of religios life for women, and it will always be the most modern. Pope Innocent IV, in his Bull which serves as preface to our holy Rule, gives the purpose of enclosure ina phrase as pregnant with meaning as it is rich in grace: "You, beloved daughters in Christ, have chosen to live enclosed in body and to serve the Lord in highest poverty so that with mind unencumbered you may be servants to the Lord." - from A RIGHT TO BE MERRY

 

All of these are quoted from a book called Walls Around the World. I would love to go on, but I'm afraid this post is already too long.... But, here is one last quote anyway:

 

"There have been remarks for centuries past about people who :dwell in ivory towers." We know what is meant when it is said in the way it is said. Exasperation. Condemnation. A certain contempt. That they are unaware of other persons. I always thought that was a very strange figure of speech. For one thing, one sees very well from a tower, much better than when one is in the midst of a crowd. If you really want to see the needs of everyone, a tower would be a very good place to go for perspective. And then I thought, "Ivory tower?" Well, what could give more joy to the poor who have so little than the sight of an ivory tower How it would draw them! How it would beguile them. How it would uplift them. How it would make them surge toward it to  investigate this beautiful thing. So an ivory palace is a very beautiful place to dwell in, - and that is your enclosure. Out of it must always come music, the music of Jesus. Then one is very pre-eminently doing God's work.

 

"So always from your life of prayer, from the ivory palace of your enclosure, may God hear music, for from the heart of true prayer comes stringed music to God and to the workld. To all the grinding hatreds and frustrations of the world must come the stringed music of our enclosed life of prayer." - from a conference by Mother Mary Francis, PCC

 

I hope this helps you have at least some understanding of the vocation, and what the enclosure really is. (And, just because I love these quotes and this book, :love: :love: :love: :love: )

[God's Beloved]

Charisms are not given for the sake of the community, but by the Holy Spirit for the sake of the Church. The people are draw to a community because of the charism. Not the other way around.

 

There will never be women priests. Doctrine cannot change. That has nothing to do with gender-bias history. Women have a beautiful and vital role in the Church but it is not to be priests. This video has a great explanation as to why. 

 

Here we are discussing charisms in the catholic Church community in general. Being a vocation station it is focused on various forms of consecrated life.

 

Within the Church community,often in a local context among baptized members, the Holy Spirit sees some need  and gives charisms for the welfare of the community and spiritual growth of the church. Sometimes given to individuals or a group , in history these charisms gradually got institutionalized and drifted away from their initial purpose. The outer covering became kind of idolized while the inner core was lost. e.g. in some traditional religious communities the habit is so idolized that it is not inculturated in other parts of the world and thus becomes a hindrance to evangelisation. More examples in some other post.

 

I AM PERSONALLY ''NOT'' IN FAVOR OF THE CHURCH CONSIDERING WOMEN'S ORDINATION BECAUSE I BELIEVE ITS TIME FOR THE LAITY IN GENERAL TO BE EMPOWERED  AND  THE CHURCH SHOULD BE LESS INSTITUTIONALIZED.

 

When i speak of gender bias , i've noted the difference in lifestyle between men and women communities of the same religious  order. The way women live in those orders is more a sign of the cultural subjugation of women who need to be protected from the world. The beautiful theologies about meaning of cloister were developed to put a stamp on these cultural bias . There are pros and cons to every way of living. I'm not satisfied with the explanations given. So please forgive me for continuing to write my doubts so that you all can help answering the questions troubling me. Thank you.

[To Jesus Through Mary]

I have no problem with you writing your doubts. I have been there. I disagree with you on charisms, the cloister, and your outlook on the habit, but perhaps when I get more time or someone more knowledgeable then me could respond to the habit and the cloister. Don't want to get on too many bunny trails here. The charism you were saying is something that should evolve and then saying it's lost it's interior meaning. Could you give me a tangible example? I think I am not following your point. From my perspective, if the Holy Spirit gave a community a charism, it must do everything in it's power to protect and preserve it. That is why the Holy Spirit began that certain community. And it is also interesting, in doing a bit of research on communities that have "died out" or "dying out" there seems to be a general pattern that they lost their faithfulness to their charism. This is just 

 

I am curious what do you mean by this? How would this look to you in an "ideal" Church? What role would the priesthood have in this scenario? 

 

I AM PERSONALLY ''NOT'' IN FAVOR OF THE CHURCH CONSIDERING WOMEN'S ORDINATION BECAUSE I BELIEVE ITS TIME FOR THE LAITY IN GENERAL TO BE EMPOWERED  AND  THE CHURCH SHOULD BE LESS INSTITUTIONALIZED.

[beatitude]

When i speak of gender bias , i've noted the difference in lifestyle between men and women communities of the same religious  order. The way women live in those orders is more a sign of the cultural subjugation of women who need to be protected from the world. The beautiful theologies about meaning of cloister were developed to put a stamp on these cultural bias . There are pros and cons to every way of living. I'm not satisfied with the explanations given. So please forgive me for continuing to write my doubts so that you all can help answering the questions troubling me. Thank you.

 

1.) Cloistered communities of men exist.

 

2.) Historically women's cloisters were places of women's power - novices typically received an education (not guaranteed to anyone but the nobility, male or female, in medieval times) and the nuns managed their own affairs. The absence of men meant that no men could police what went on inside the cloister, irrespective of what cultural norms existed at the time; it was and remains a woman's world. Don't underestimate the strength of a woman-only community. There are plenty of secular radical feminists who advocate for the exact same. Germaine Greer, no fan of religion, once wrote, "There's something to be said for nunneries." So don't look at nuns and assume submission. Also - don't look at the cloister and assume protection. The idea of the enclosure as some idyllic tranquil existence untouched by the horrors of the world is a fantasy.

[BarbTherese]

The idea of the enclosure as some idyllic tranquil existence untouched by the horrors of the world is a fantasy.

 

Very true! 

[God's Beloved]

1.) Cloistered communities of men exist.

 

2.) Historically women's cloisters were places of women's power - novices typically received an education (not guaranteed to anyone but the nobility, male or female, in medieval times) and the nuns managed their own affairs. The absence of men meant that no men could police what went on inside the cloister, irrespective of what cultural norms existed at the time; it was and remains a woman's world. Don't underestimate the strength of a woman-only community. There are plenty of secular radical feminists who advocate for the exact same. Germaine Greer, no fan of religion, once wrote, "There's something to be said for nunneries." So don't look at nuns and assume submission. Also - don't look at the cloister and assume protection. The idea of the enclosure as some idyllic tranquil existence untouched by the horrors of the world is a fantasy.

 

Indeed there is so much you all are sharing that gives new perspectives to monastic life. Thanks once again.

 

Since this thread is focused on Charisms  and monastic life is just one of them , I wish to avoid naming any particular order . But I am thinking of one particular order of monastics where the men do not have a cloister but the women do. Until few years ago it was the men who co ordinated the  group of monasteries of women , including major decisions about candidates , entrance etc. I do not wish to go off topic.

 

Another point is that in the early Church history , eastern and western monasticism developed when persecution of Christians ceased and they found the need to move to the deserts to embrace another form of martyrdom . History also shows possibility of influence of Buddhism on the ascetic lifestyle.

 

Although  Pope Francis said recently that there are more martyrs around the world today than in the early Church ,  monasteries indeed seem to be a safe haven . The motivations of candidates joining monasteries are not the same as in early Church history.

 

Is that a change in the Charism of monasticism ?

Edited April 16, 2013 by God's Beloved

[God's Beloved]

The charism you were saying is something that should evolve and then saying it's lost it's interior meaning. Could you give me a tangible example? I think I am not following your point. From my perspective, if the Holy Spirit gave a community a charism, it must do everything in it's power to protect and preserve it. That is why the Holy Spirit began that certain community. And it is also interesting, in doing a bit of research on communities that have "died out" or "dying out" there seems to be a general pattern that they lost their faithfulness to their charism.

 

Firstly , please let me clarify that when i say community, it Primarily means the local church community . If  I write about a community of consecrated or religious life , I shall mention that specifically.

 

An example of how some charisms die out in the process of  evolution and lose their interior meaning :

 

Jane is 16 and  belongs to a poor family. She meets with an accident and is forced to stay at home for few weeks due to fracture of her foot. While at home she spends her time in prayer. She happens to move her fingers on an organ and discovers that she can play it . It is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Children in the locality flock around her and she teaches them to sing hymns to the Lord. People who are suffering also find solace in singing and praying with her.

 

This group gradually becomes  the choir of their local community . Jane's special gift is to play the organ and inspire 'others' to sing for the Lord. As time passes , she teaches more and more people to sing , they become a famous band of musicians and get invitations to go to other communities . They perform , receive praise , honor , income from sale of videos/ CDs etc .

 

People of other religions become interested in their talent and they start singing for non-religious purposes or for rich christian communities who can pay them well because the members have to see their personal expenses and this is their full-time career.

 

Of course their major contribution is Gospel music but they are no more able to serve the poor , to gather people to inspire them to pray and sing to the Lord.

 

The above is so similar to what has happened to many Charisms in the Church that led to formation of  Institutes of Consecrated/ Religious life . In countries around the world   where there are many poor ,  some of these institutes have started  schools , hospitals etc. BUT   a small percentage of the poor is able to benefit from their services. The pride and prestige enjoyed by these institutes in the developing world has made some of them  mere professionals, christian values are compromised, candidates join because they are from poor families and can get everything by becoming religious : education, shelter, food, guaranteed job, spiritual resources, security, honor etc. etc. Motivations for becoming religious are doubtful although vocations flourish. Wouldn't it be better some of these communities stopped calling themselves  consecrated / religious ?

 

What happens to Charisms  and their purpose as desired by the Holy Spirit ?

[BarbTherese]

 I have only met one CV in my life - she was an overtly and unconcernedly bitter woman, both towards her diocesan authority and some religious sisters.  I found this very sad, very sad and it truly did sadden me.  I guess then that some CV's too might have problems living out their vocational call and The Gospel.  I read in another thread relating to CV's that at the time of their consecration a CV immedialtely becomes bride, virgin and mother through the Holy Spirit - but I can see having experienced it with my one CV that the human element remains (of course :) ) and that the ideal may be something to strive towards with problems along the way, some may persevere through the thick and the thin, others might become bitter and negative minded about some others.

 

  I am wondering if this is a compromise of the charism of the CV, not that I know much about them. 

 

If it is such a compromise, then I have plenty in my own backyard to  be concerned about sufficient not to make a song and dance about others and theirs.  We are all human and nothing can take that away from us and many of us do strive for very high ideals and may receive the call and Grace to succeed - one thing I had to learn in my own journey was that I am indeed human as any and I found forgiving others for their humanity far easier than forgiving myself for my own.  No two ways about it, that was pride and letting that click right home where it hurt was a learning curve.

 

  At the time of speaking to my CV, I wanted to know her opinion of living a chaste life committed to the Gospel and while living alone - and was quite unprepared on all levels for the responses that I received and the tone of delivery.  She did have outstanding redeeming qualities in that she drove us to a beautiful beach to have our chat and bought me a Magnun - now this rather took me aback because in the midst of her angry responses, she said to me: "Would you like a Magnun?" - I didn't realize it was an icecream :} ...........we couldn't stop laughing about it. :coffee:

 

 

 

Edited April 16, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[God's Beloved]

Thanks Barbara , you seem to have stolen the words from my mouth.

 

In the examples of Charisms fading away or losing their internal core while the outward gets idolized , i think the example of Jane as a musician can happen to a CV living in the world.

 

Personally I have been struggling with this question about Charisms in general. Theology says such beautiful things about  Consecrated / Religious life  but when the Reality check is done , we tend to fail. In fact I wonder if  consecrated people [ including CV] around the world are still in a state of triumphalism and Denial that there is a problem.  The Gospel , the message of the Paschal Mystery  is being forgotten. With CVs  I too have experienced  coldness, lukewarmness, bitterness , envy etc. [ i must acknowledge this has happened to me too] . Instead of the fruits of the Holy Spirit , the love springing from spiritual motherhood , there is  focus on romanticism. On my own blog I've seen the stats , people read posts that  contain beautiful , spiritually romantic concepts  but fewer  people read  posts related to suffering , martyrdom , dying to self , serving others etc.

 

All this makes me question . Maybe I'm questioning consecrated life in general. We need witnesses rather than preachers and I don't see them enough. I feel sure I was  a more loving person before becoming a CV. Of course there are factors leading to bitterness and it seems common with CV around the world since this vocation is not understood  and does not receive the basic support that other vocations in the Church have.

 

I wish CV around the world could unite to see into all this but I have doubts CV can unite. And i think its already too late for some to wait for this to happen.

[BarbTherese]

God's Beloved, on 16 Apr 2013

Thanks Barbara , you seem to have stolen the words from my mouth.

In the examples of Charisms fading away or losing their internal core while the outward gets idolized , i think the example of Jane as a musician can happen to a CV living in the world.

 

It can happen, because we are all human and we are all The Church. In our call to holiness in whatever specific vocation in which we are called to aspire to it, we can all – Pope to the least – fail along the way.  No cause for despair, rather to repent and begin again.  And I think that this just might be the story of all journeys – that continual repenting and beginning again.  Or I could be projecting and it is simply my daily journey.

 

 

Personally I have been struggling with this question about Charisms in general. Theology says such beautiful things about Consecrated / Religious life but when the Reality check is done , we tend to fail. In fact I wonder if consecrated people [ including CV] around the world are still in a state of triumphalism and Denial that there is a problem.
 

Denial can be a group denial or an individual denial.  Charism is a gift and I don’t think that The Holy Spirit would grant a gift and then take it back - with reflection although not fully happy with reflection as yet.  We might get lost in incidentals in identifying and living out our gift.  As an example the Sisters of St Joseph of Mary MacKillop here in Australia did wonderful things in the steps of Mary, their foundress (in lay life a governess), who had an ardent and deep love of the poor and in the main expressed this in her religious life through free education for the poor.  The Sisters until some years after V2 were teachers by far in the main. I think we tended to think of their gift as being teachers, and never looked deeper than that, and took this for granted.  However, their real charism still shines brightly as a love of the poor and they take up here and abroad many causes of the poor of any kind or degree.

 

 

 The Gospel , the message of the Paschal Mystery is being forgotten. With CVs I too have experienced coldness, lukewarmness, bitterness , envy etc. [ i must acknowledge this has happened to me too] . Instead of the fruits of the Holy Spirit , the love springing from spiritual motherhood , there is focus on romanticism. On my own blog I've seen the stats , people read posts that contain beautiful , spiritually romantic concepts but fewer people read posts related to suffering , martyrdom , dying to self , serving others etc.

 

As I said, there are too many compromises or failures in my own backyard to get myself tied up in knots about those of others.  Rather, once I identify that I have failed and what exactly that failure is and why it came about, then I need to repent and address that root cause.  And if I think that will be end of my days of repenting and beginning again in some way, then I am conviced I am still “off my mark”.  “Sin” incidentally is drawn from Greek and means “to miss the mark”.  I think that I would not be seeing the reality of me and my life as it is.  Rather, I would begin to loose myself in romanticism about my ideal self, my true identity, and the life to which I am called being present already â€“ when in reality it is “not yet”.  Something to which I aspire but will be fulfilled only in Heaven.

If we loose sight of what we are all about as Catholics is to strive ardently to live The Gospel at all times and in all circumstances, then we have really and truly lost our way and missing the mark entirely, abstolutely and terribly.

 

All this makes me question . Maybe I'm questioning consecrated life in general. We need witnesses rather than preachers and I don't see them enough. I feel sure I was a more loving person before becoming a CV. Of course there are factors leading to bitterness and it seems common with CV around the world since this vocation is not understood and does not receive the basic support that other vocations in the Church have.

I wish CV around the world could unite to see into all this but I have doubts CV can unite. And i think its already too late for some to wait for this to happen.

 

As I said before, I know little about CV’s really.  I do know that living under private vows for over 30 years has been quite a journey – QUITE a journey.  For me it has been the dance of life with The Lord of The Dance (two steps forward, three back, one forward, four back, three forward – I think you probably get the picture).   The Love and Mercy of God has totally overcome me and left me absolutely awestruck ………. but not dumbstruck, although I have times when I wish to goodness it would!!!

What you have said is one of my concerns also.  What are our vocations all about? Our relationship with The Church, hierarchy, and those whose vocations we share or is it all about our relationship to Jesus and striving to live our lives as He would live them.  I have a bargain with Jesus.  I am sufficiently confused that I am going to just go in like a bull at the gate (spontaneously) and if I am getting it all wrong, then my absolute trust and total confidence is that You indeed can set me right.  And that is pretty much how I live daily.

 

One thing that my CV I met communicated to me was to expect absolutely no help/encouragement/affirmation on a diocesan or perhaps even a parish level and to be prepared to be thoroughly misunderstood by probably most if not all Catholics.  Fortunately, I was not looking for encouragement nor support on a diocesan or parish level.  I had travelled then long enough with mental illness to be quite accustomed and familiar with misjudgements and misunderstandings from fellow Catholic.    Before making my private vows perpetual vows, I wanted to research all I could and to be very sure that I knew what I was doing.  I knew that the road ahead of me would probably be long and at times difficult and I would be setting out and travelling, personally, quite in the dark – simply one foot ahead of the other and gently as it goes – and hopefully with my hands in the Hand of The Man Who Stilled The Waters.  Truth is at times my hands were anywhere but there, but He just clung on to me and never let me go.   I knew at times my problems would probably be massive for me due to Bipolar and back then still a very active and quite nasty illness regularly taking my life totaly apart, and my relationships as well.  It all had to be a quite private matter between Jesus and I since only He could understand me and I was totally convinced of this and simply facing an oft proven reality.  A priest once said to me “Walk gently, Barb, on the edge of eternity”.  That struck home with me immediately and it is a beautiful statement summarizing so much.

 

My brother is a Reality Therapist and one of the premises of Reality Therapy is that you can change yourself but you cannot change others, unless of course they ask for your help to change.  One can only HOPE to have a positive influence on others.    It is very true if one sits down and thinks about it – if we want to change the world, we start with ourselves.   Life is all about attitude and perspective.  When we first meet others they are summing us up – not so much really hearing what we are saying as listening for the person who is doing the saying.  Another’s decision about who we are will either add to the value of what we have to say or detract from it and they don’t really hear.  Something like that.  It’s like St Francis said “Preach The Gospel – use words if necessary”.  St Therese is such a wonderful saint and gift to us because she really was outstandingly ordinary.  Quite a good Carmelite as ordinary Carmelite nuns go, but nothing outstanding was the general opinion in her monastery.  Look at what The Lord did with her life!  She may not have had an outstanding influence on the 13 or so nuns in her monastery, but The Lord took the trust and confidence she offered and converted millions through her to a very simple way of living The Gospel with outstanding merit and value to The Church and even beyond.  Her total and absolute trust and unswerving confidence was in Jesus despite her own flaws and failings which cropped up for her on a daily basis.  She simply ignored the latter - as simple as that.  Of course, repenting and addressing those flaws and failings were part of her daily life.  Her reasoning was quite profound.  Was He or was He not a God of Infinite Love and Mercy who offered so much comfort and consolation to the poor - and Therese experienced her poverty -  and yet she was amazingly rich.  I think probably towards the end of her life, The Lord allowed her to glimpse her treasure, her richness.  But it was never hers, rather it was His Gift to her.

 

Off me pulpit .......................... till next time dammit! :cheers:

[Byzantine]

Charisms are a gift of the holy spirit. I is confuzzled here.

 

I think here what is meant is that hopefully there will come a time when there aren't any attacks on life, so the good sisters will no longer be needed.

[beatitude]

The above is so similar to what has happened to many Charisms in the Church that led to formation of  Institutes of Consecrated/ Religious life . In countries around the world   where there are many poor ,  some of these institutes have started  schools , hospitals etc. BUT   a small percentage of the poor is able to benefit from their services. The pride and prestige enjoyed by these institutes in the developing world has made some of them  mere professionals, christian values are compromised, candidates join because they are from poor families and can get everything by becoming religious : education, shelter, food, guaranteed job, spiritual resources, security, honor etc. etc. Motivations for becoming religious are doubtful although vocations flourish. Wouldn't it be better some of these communities stopped calling themselves  consecrated / religious ?

 

What happens to Charisms  and their purpose as desired by the Holy Spirit ?

 

I would be careful with this line of thinking. We have no way of knowing whether the sisters in these congregations feel proud or see themselves as being part of something prestigious. It is also not right to judge their work on the basis of the sheer number of poor people they can reach. Mother Teresa knew that she was reaching only an infinitesimal number of Kolkata's most destitute people, but as she put it, "Our work is a drop in the ocean, but without it, I think the ocean would be less." Jesus did teach that the one is as important as the ninety-nine. It isn't right to look at the people whom a congregation ministers to and ask why they aren't caring for the very poorest - because people whom to you look as if they need no help might have very great needs. Material poverty is not the only problem out there.

 

Go too far down this path, and you risk becoming like the people who look at cloistered communities and say, "But why don't you run a school or a hospital? It would be so much better." It's a very utilitarian approach, and it turns religious life into a form of efficient social work with precise targets to meet. From there it becomes too easy to castigate religious for being unfaithful to their charisms. I am not prepared to do that. It seems to be a sport amongst some discerners, even among ones who make a show of being very observant and traditional - the observance doesn't extend so far as leaving these judgments to the only One who can know. It would be better if we concentrated on fidelity to our own callings rather than wondering if other people are living up to theirs.

 

As for a community ceasing to call themselves consecrated/religious - they can't do that for the simple reason that they are vowed men and women. Suggesting that they should cease to be religious if they don't fit a certain standard standard in the same way that secular employees get demoted if they don't fulfill their employer's expectations misses out on the whole spiritual significance of vowed life.

[To Jesus Through Mary]

Firstly , please let me clarify that when i say community, it Primarily means the local church community . If  I write about a community of consecrated or religious life , I shall mention that specifically.

 

An example of how some charisms die out in the process of  evolution and lose their interior meaning :

 

Jane is 16 and  belongs to a poor family. She meets with an accident and is forced to stay at home for few weeks due to fracture of her foot. While at home she spends her time in prayer. She happens to move her fingers on an organ and discovers that she can play it . It is a gift of the Holy Spirit. Children in the locality flock around her and she teaches them to sing hymns to the Lord. People who are suffering also find solace in singing and praying with her.

 

This group gradually becomes  the choir of their local community . Jane's special gift is to play the organ and inspire 'others' to sing for the Lord. As time passes , she teaches more and more people to sing , they become a famous band of musicians and get invitations to go to other communities . They perform , receive praise , honor , income from sale of videos/ CDs etc .

 

People of other religions become interested in their talent and they start singing for non-religious purposes or for rich christian communities who can pay them well because the members have to see their personal expenses and this is their full-time career.

 

Of course their major contribution is Gospel music but they are no more able to serve the poor , to gather people to inspire them to pray and sing to the Lord.

 

The above is so similar to what has happened to many Charisms in the Church that led to formation of  Institutes of Consecrated/ Religious life . In countries around the world   where there are many poor ,  some of these institutes have started  schools , hospitals etc. BUT   a small percentage of the poor is able to benefit from their services. The pride and prestige enjoyed by these institutes in the developing world has made some of them  mere professionals, christian values are compromised, candidates join because they are from poor families and can get everything by becoming religious : education, shelter, food, guaranteed job, spiritual resources, security, honor etc. etc. Motivations for becoming religious are doubtful although vocations flourish. Wouldn't it be better some of these communities stopped calling themselves  consecrated / religious ?

 

What happens to Charisms  and their purpose as desired by the Holy Spirit ?

 

I wish I had more time to respond to this and you PM. I have so much going on so I don't. But in your example- there has not been a community founded for such an intention, has there? I am speaking of a specific community that you know of that there charism is no longer needed in the Church. That their charism could change. As this example is hypothetical, it fails to get at the heart of the issue. Which is the Holy Spirits inspirations are always needed in the Church. 

 

As for the small percentage of the poor benefiting from their services... two points, say a religious order began to educate the poor. Say they got super popular and started only taking riches children. That would be them being unfaithful and not protecting their charism.

 

2nd point, remember that the most charitable organization in the world is the Catholic Church.