God's Beloved Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Charisms are gifted by the Holy Spirit for the good of the Church and the World. They are often gifted to individuals or a group of people , get institutionalized and become irrelevant as times passes. Should some charisms be allowed to fade away naturally and New charisms embraced for today ? Can some charisms meant for people several centuries ago actually be harmful to today's Church and world ? Do we have some concrete experiences to share on this topic ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carmenchristi Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Yes, charisma do die out for 2 reasons 1) because we have not been good stewards of them and do not take proper care of them. 2) because they are no longer relevant or needed. It is often situation #2 when orders die out and when they are no longer allowed to accept new vocations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuscipeMeDomine Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Then there are charisms you HOPE will fade out. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the Sisters of Life were no longer needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ToJesusMyHeart Posted April 8, 2013 Share Posted April 8, 2013 Then there are charisms you HOPE will fade out. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the Sisters of Life were no longer needed? I can see abortion being abolished in my lifetime, but now we are dealing with assisted suicide and euthanasia too. And there will always be the death penalty to fight against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God's Beloved Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 Thanks for the responses ! The Second Vatican Council led to updating of the understanding of the Church , making it more open to the world and inclusive. This led to changes in consecrated/religious life too ----lesser separation from the world and more involvement in the world. So why haven't some monastic orders given up structures / enclosures that are contrary to the spirit of the Incarnation ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Allie Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Thanks for the responses ! The Second Vatican Council led to updating of the understanding of the Church , making it more open to the world and inclusive. This led to changes in consecrated/religious life too ----lesser separation from the world and more involvement in the world. So why haven't some monastic orders given up structures / enclosures that are contrary to the spirit of the Incarnation ? Why is enclosure contrary to the spirit of the Incarnation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
To Jesus Through Mary Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Thanks for the responses ! The Second Vatican Council led to updating of the understanding of the Church , making it more open to the world and inclusive. This led to changes in consecrated/religious life too ----lesser separation from the world and more involvement in the world. So why haven't some monastic orders given up structures / enclosures that are contrary to the spirit of the Incarnation ? People do not join the monastery/cloister to get away from the world, but to pray and sacrifice for the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
God's Beloved Posted April 13, 2013 Author Share Posted April 13, 2013 Am not discussing about some people feeling called to a life of prayer. What looks contrary to the spirit of the Incarnation and the Second Vatican Council is the ' Structures/ enclosures' not yet given up by some traditional orders and these structures have nothing to do with the Charism. Its like saying to the world that everything 'inside' is holy and everything 'outside' is less holy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
petitpèlerin Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 (edited) What looks contrary to the spirit of the Incarnation and the Second Vatican Council is the ' Structures/ enclosures' not yet given up by some traditional orders and these structures have nothing to do with the Charism. Could you give an example of an order that has a structure or enclosure that has nothing to do with its charism? Its like saying to the world that everything 'inside' is holy and everything 'outside' is less holy. It can be misunderstood that way but that's not at all what it's saying. Any community that sees it that way would have serious problems indeed. Edited April 13, 2013 by petitpèlerin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 I think personally that enclosure is one way of ensuring that Peace necessary to contemplation. It says to the religious behind the enclosure that the distractions of the world are not for them nor what their vocation is about. It is a prime and total focus at all times on God and yes, including to pray and do penance for the world and an embrace of the world fully in this way. The enclosure is also symbolic of Jesus many times alone in prayer on the mountain and seeking to be quite alone on the mountain in order to pray. For those outside the enclosre it says that all the very often quite just and rightful, even pleasurable, distractions of the world are not for those inside the enclosure. That they are called to live an entirely different lifestyle to follow their particular and personal vocation. It is a life separted from the world, for the world. I think of the enclosure or grille as more symbolic than anything and ideally leading to deeper reflection on the part of those on both sides of the enclosure than the grille or enclosure itself. I read somewhere that it is not unusual for those transferring from active to contemplative lives to have lived a very busy and committed apostolate - but found that they were called to something deeper. It is not an abandonment of a busy life, but the embracing of a deeper and different call. And believe me, monastic life can be a very busy life indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 In The Church, no one vocation can fully replicate nor continue the entire mission and life of Jesus while He was on earth. We are the Mystical Body of Christ on earth, and each vocation lay (marriage or single state),tne consecrated life or Holy Orders takes up some aspect of the mission and life of Jesus on earth and continues to live it out. Thus the whole Church united to Jesus in Baptism and in The Eucharist continues the mission and life of Jesus on earth as the Mystical Body of Jesus either militant, suffering or triumphant. The Doctrine of The Mystical Body of Christ is a powerful and extremely beautiful doctrine and the Gift He has left us with. Jesus is our Head and Leader, Saviour, as it says in the First Reading tonight (Vigil Mass here in Sth Aussie, Third Sunday Easter) "God exalted him at his right hand as leader and savior". Paul to Romans Ch12 " [4] For as in one body we have many members, but all the members have not the same office: [5] So we being many, are one body in Christ, and every one members one of another." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Then there are charisms you HOPE will fade out. Wouldn't it be wonderful if the Sisters of Life were no longer needed? Charisms are a gift of the holy spirit. I is confuzzled here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BarbTherese Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Charism: http://www.therealpresence.org CHARISMS. Literally "gifts of grace" (charismata), described by St. Paul as gratuitous blessings of an extraordinary and transitory nature conferred directly for the good of others. Indirectly they may also benefit the one who possesses the charisms, but their immediate purpose is for the spiritual welfare of the Christian community. Depending on the classification, the charisms are variously numbered. The longest single enumeration is in St. Paul (I Corinthians 12:1-14, 40). Spiritual writers often list five categories, based on the Pauline writings and the Acts of the Apostles, namely charisms of instruction, administration, miracles, service, and prayer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFI Griswold Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Charisms are gifted by the Holy Spirit for the good of the Church and the World. They are often gifted to individuals or a group of people , get institutionalized and become irrelevant as times passes. Should some charisms be allowed to fade away naturally and New charisms embraced for today ? Can some charisms meant for people several centuries ago actually be harmful to today's Church and world ? Do we have some concrete experiences to share on this topic ? Ave Maria! The Mercedarians were initially founded to ransom themselves in exchange for Christians captured by Muslims. I don't think they actually do that these days.. Regarding the value of enclosure, "The Contemplative Communities of the Franciscan Sisters of the Immaculate (“I Colombaiâ€, that is, “Dove Housesâ€, as we call our Contemplative Houses) are a gift of inestimable value. They are the secret but powerful wellspring for the vitality of the Institute. The Contemplative Franciscans of the Immaculate do the work of Moses when he prayed on the mountain with his arms raised. The “raised arms†of the Contemplatives support and give energy to the Sisters and the Friars, so that they may always carry on the diverse universal activities of the “Mission of the Immaculate Mediatrix†on earth. If their help ceases, if there are no “raised arms,†how shall this Mission of the Immaculate Mediatrix bear fruit? Consider the example of Jesus Who remained a long time on the mountain in prayer (cf Lk 6:12); of the Immaculate, Who at Lourdes and Fatima asked for “prayer and penance†for the salvation of the world; of Mary of Bethany, who, seated “at the Lord's feet†(Lk 10: 39) had “chosen the best part†(Lk 10: 42); of the Church, which never tires of reaffirming the primacy of contemplation in the religious and apostolic life. Need we any more examples than these in order to comprehend the preciousness of such a great and desirable good as that of a contemplative community?" http://www.franciscansoftheimmaculate.com/religious-life/history/contemplative-sisters.html Did not the Council fathers intend contemplatives to fortify their enclosure walls (spiritual and material) even more, and the actives to give their lives to others in Christ even more, returning to their original charisms instead of going every other which way? Ave Maria! fra John Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 Am not discussing about some people feeling called to a life of prayer. What looks contrary to the spirit of the Incarnation and the Second Vatican Council is the ' Structures/ enclosures' not yet given up by some traditional orders and these structures have nothing to do with the Charism. Its like saying to the world that everything 'inside' is holy and everything 'outside' is less holy. You really need to read Verbi Sponsa then! CONGREGATION FOR INSTITUTES OF CONSECRATED LIFE AND FOR SOCIETIES OF APOSTOLIC LIFE VERBI SPONSA Instruction on the Contemplative Life and on the Enclosure of Nuns http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccscrlife/documents/rc_con_ccscrlife_doc_13051999_verbi-sponsa_en.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now