Papist Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 I see, and how do the groups you support push for what they believe? http://catholicnewsherald.com/component/content/article/53-news/roknewspager-local/2636-youth-use-digital-media-to-promote-latin-mass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 so, people get upset with what a Pope did, then they go into a tizzy and question if the Holy Spirit is truly working in the Catholic Church anymore, then they join some rabid radical group that shares the same crazy idea that somehow the gates of hell have prevailed, then they go about themselves forming what they believe to be the "true Catholic Church" on earth that they and only they possess..except it's outside the Catholic Church..and without a Pope...then these same people accuse the Pope of heresy? um....yeah....okay :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted April 10, 2013 Share Posted April 10, 2013 Irony can be pretty ironic sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Praying for the protection of persons is not a problem (see my post #60). Praying for a false religion is problematic, because we should never pray for the protection of error. Praying to protect the hearts of Muslims from hardening so that they may come to the truth that is found only in Christ and His Church is perfectly acceptable. I would even go so far as to say that such a prayer is the duty of a Catholic Christian. From some of what iv'e read that you are saying i feel possibly you may believe to a degree the old false saying "be careful what you pray for." GOD isn't going to murder your enemy even if you ask him to, nore is st john the baptist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 though he may distance his protection from a person or group that is an assumed enemy, that justice may prevail when so ever and how so ever, leave them to the will of the wild and all that jazz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) and although i think most of us can stumble into a heretical position at times with our words and thoughts,as far as i'm aware it must be a continued position that undermines true faith and morals delibrately after multiple warnings to be deemed heretical, one off's don't count. Although (and i'm not saying it is) his comment may be wrong and possibly even mis leading it can not be said that it is heretical without the above criteria. Edited April 12, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I just realised who actually can warn the pope of any error, i guess he has a few cardinals close to him that alert him to serious error. Does anyone know, or is he only answerable to Jesus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 I just realised who actually can warn the pope of any error, i guess he has a few cardinals close to him that alert him to serious error. Does anyone know, or is he only answerable to Jesus. Anyone could 'warn' the pope of an error, if the pope is in error. It may depend on context whether or not such a warning is prudent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 So, you can play along and assume sedeplenism, I guess I'm the only one here who doesn't know what the fonze this is, so why don't you enlighten me plz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) I guess I'm the only one here who doesn't know what the fonze this is, so why don't you enlighten me plz I only learned it a few weeks ago myself, but it filled a gaping hole in my vocabulary, so I make sure to use it. :smile3: Basically, sedevacantism is "the seat is vacant". Sedeplenism is "the seat is full [not vacant]". I am not aware of a simpler antonym for sedevacantism, so sedeplenism really pulls its weight, despite the fact that it is almost prohibitively obscure even among Catholics. :P Interestingly, the first people I heard using the term were sedevacantists themselves. I feel like this is significant, but I am not sure why. Edited April 12, 2013 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quid Est Veritas? Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 Probably because a "filled seat" is so normal that almost nobody but sedevacantists think about it. It must be kind of sad to believe that there is no pope. I felt strangely lost during the recent period before Pope Francis's election and couldn't imagine feeling that way permanently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 I think somewhere back there i said ecclesistical instead of ecumenical, i get these two words mixed up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 As far as the statement goes, it completely depends on the context and what the speaker means. Does it mean that John the Baptist protect Islam so that Islam may one day destroy Catholicism? Does it mean that John the Baptist protect Islam so that Islam may one day grow in understanding of the truth and one day come to accept Christ as savior, and in the meantime help Muslims live as virtuous people bearing witness to the God of Abraham? "Islam" cannot "grow in understanding of the truth and one day come to accept Christ as savior," though it is certainly possible with God's grace for persons who are Muslim to do so - in which case they would be Christian, and no longer Muslim. The religion founded by the false prophet Mohammed is contrary to that preached by Christ. If Muslims en masse converted to the Christian Faith, they would no longer belong to the Islamic religion preached by Mohammed. Just as if Mormons converted to the Catholic Faith, they would cease to be Mormon, and converted atheists would no longer be atheist. On its face, saying "John the Baptist protect Islam" makes no more sense than "John the Baptist protect Mormonism" or "John the Baptist protect Hinduism." The statement in the prayer seems misleading and ill-worded at best (though perhaps something was lost in translation), though God alone knows what Blessed John Paul II meant in his heart when he said it. That is for God alone to judge. This prayer is not, and never was, a dogmatic statement of the Church, and therefore there is no point in trying to use this to prove that Catholic doctrine has changed. That said, I see absolutely no point in dredging this up and obsessing of it. Let Blessed John Paul rest in peace, and leave the judgment of his individual actions to God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicsAreKewl Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 (edited) This prayer is not, and never was, a dogmatic statement of the Church, and therefore there is no point in trying to use this to prove that Catholic doctrine has changed. Interesting point. To what degree, then, are Catholics to accept what the Pope says? Does that mean that gay marriage is up for debate? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall a specific doctrine stating that gay people are not allowed to marry. Though the Bible condemns gay acts, it also supports the idea that the sun revolves around the earth and that the earth was created twice. I'm sure there is a good explanation for this. That said, I see absolutely no point in dredging this up and obsessing of it. Let Blessed John Paul rest in peace, and leave the judgment of his individual actions to God. I disagree. If the Pope is the leader of the Church, wouldn't ignoring some of his statements seem like cherry-picking? Edited April 17, 2013 by CatholicsAreKewl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted April 17, 2013 Share Posted April 17, 2013 they see me trollin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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