Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 i thought the house of worship in the catholic church is part of a parish as are the parishners and that the term church is the universal church world wide, what i mean is church is the whole picture and the parish is a segment of that whole picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 (edited) I just thought i would pipe up and add my two cents,which is usually the same two cents on the protestant and non denominational matter. CCC states that the word of God/holy bible has the power to save, when we talk about the other practising christians we should ascertain that we are not condemning them to perpetual/eternal damnation, even though st paul says anyone whom does not partake of the body and blood of christ is dead and already condemned this may not mean perpetual damnation but the Justice of the Lord in the sense of the psalmist when said' the Lord is my staff anf my rod' (i assume this means my comfort and discipline,mercy and justice.) that they have as much chance to be saved through prayer,good works and the holy scripture. So can one be saved through Gods Justice or only his mercy. Are they a church ? I have also heard church described as a gathering of the faithfull, there is the domestic church( a family all of good faith at home.) and even i assume a social church which could be prayer group, bible study or just 2 or more people gathered in jesus name. Back to the CCC when it says the word of GOD has the power to save, but should never fully replace the sacrements(i'm assuming thats aimed directly at catholic christians,but what of those outside of the holy catholic church,does the word of GOD still have the power to save.?). is this even without the sacrement of baptism? And theres your curve ball. Onward christian souls. JESUS iz LORD. JC "wherever any two or more are gathered in my name i shall be there." Edited April 5, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 That is correct, for Eastern Orthodox the "sacraments" of Protestants are empty vessels. That said, a bishop does have the power - through the keys he has received in ordination - to economically (oeconomia) fill with grace the empty rite performed by Protestants upon the conversion of an individual to the Orthodox faith. amazing. The holy catholic churches doctine on this matter states that in a dire emergency where no priest or bishop is available the layity can perform a baptism as long as it is in the name of the father and of the son and of the holy spirit. Than what is an emergency, i tend to think if the adult person was sick of waiting in R.C.I.A and really wanted to be batised and really couldn't wait, i would whack em in the bathtub and baptise them in the name of the father and the son and the holy spirit,lol.But seriously would such an example be an emergency? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quid Est Veritas? Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Such an example would not be an emergency. If a person was in a situation like that, presumably it would be up to the discretion of the priest guiding him into the Church about whether to Baptise him sooner than a pre-planned time-table suggests. When Sacraments are dispensed can be somewhat fluid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted April 5, 2013 Share Posted April 5, 2013 Thanks quid est veritas? Ok i may be hijacking this thread and i know that the topic is not whether or not a protestant,calvinist,lutheran or orthodox can be saved but i must reveal some church doctrine on salvation that i found (and believed always deep in my heart but now have the words thanks be to GOD),which doesn't disclude anyone,even athiests. 1. God's grace is absolutely necessary for salvation [but it doesn't say exactly that the person must be a believer.] 2. God wishes all men to be saved. 3.God gives to each man sufficent grace to be saved. 4.God,since He endows man with a free will, makes efficacy of His saving will depend on man's co-operation with it [this doesn't state the catholic man but man in his etirety.] Sorry this doesn't have to do with the topic but i felt it necessary to reveal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PadrePioOfPietrelcino Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 I am thoroughly enjoying your conversation! Of course, Catholicism and Orthodoxy are both new studies for me. I was raised in a Protestant, Southern Baptist Church, and am currently active in a Christian (Disciples of Christ, D.O.C.) Church. I am in Seminary, and have begun conversations with the Ordination Board for D.O.C. So may I jump in and ask: has my Baptism, salvific experience, evangelistic mission, discipleship development, teaching, missional community developments, calling and church participation in some ways "void" -officially- because these have all taken place outside a particularly Catholic community? No sarcasm or cheekness meant. I am genuinely curious what the official Catholic (and unofficial, for any interested laity :) response may be to this. We should remember that God will not ask the impossible from somebody, so if you have never been shown or taught the fullness of the Divine Revelation (or been mis-taught), but are doing your best to seek after that then it is POSSIBLE that Christ will still cover you, but that is something we can not judge. We do know that Christ gave the keys to Peter and the Church so we can have a certainty in our faith as Catholics. God calls us legitimately in a number of ways and especially trying to carry out God's work is not something that is "void" so much as can be made fuller or more complete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) Big L - O -L that in 2013 people want to act like protostant churches aren't legit...Whatever...I'm sure babies are in limbo too...if they're lucky... Edited April 6, 2013 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) You know with the rise of atheist and science and all the valid points they make we should do our best to lift up christians and not be negative...Most of the most sincere christians I know or have known are protostant or non denominational...To act as if Jesus might " POSSIBLY" save them is a slap in their face...And then for the orthadox to say their baptism isn't even valid is a joke...And let's be honest that's pretty much saying to all black christians you really aren't christians...Since most blacks aren't catholics...If that's the approach you guys are taking then good luck...I want nothing to do with it...If that doesn't make me "church militant" o well... Edited April 6, 2013 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Big L - O -L that in 2013 people want to act like protostant churches aren't legit...Whatever...I'm sure babies are in limbo too...if they're lucky... Have you got anything whatsoever that contradicts what I have already said? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Nihil you are of my favorites here...I respect you a lot...I would never be able to beat you in an argument over Catholicism...Although I stand by what I said and I think its valid...Godbless.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 At the end of the day, if you do not agree with the Church, either the Church is wrong or you are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) The physical building Church sometimes contradicts itself...And for the record as I have stated before I believe in all the teachings on faith and morals...I also think black people are christians...Orthadox say their baptism isn't valid? Screw that...With a capital S ! Edited April 6, 2013 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 (edited) I'll be really honest...At least in america that is one of the big turn offs to me about the Catholic Church...Is that I see hardly no black people in it yet there are tons of black christians who love Jesus and go to church (although you say its not church)....The rapper Lecrae comes to mind...That guy is on fire for God and he has the fruits to show it...I'm not comfortable telling him that where he goes to worship every Sunday he isn't really at church...I wouldn't be comfortable with him reading this thread either and him seeing how some catholics would say he isn't a christian and his baptism isn't valid... Edited April 6, 2013 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2013 Share Posted April 6, 2013 Makes you wonder why people are sick of religion....rules rules rules rules rules...and sometimes if you're lucky...love.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 7, 2013 Share Posted April 7, 2013 The physical building Church sometimes contradicts itself...And for the record as I have stated before I believe in all the teachings on faith and morals...I also think black people are christians...Orthadox say their baptism isn't valid? Screw that...With a capital S ! First, physical buildings say nothing. The Church cannot contradict herself, though her members are imperfect and sometimes do. Second, nobody said a thing about black people, so I have no idea what you are talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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