Rules For The Scrupulous Person

[Nihil Obstat]

On 4/9/2021 at 7:50 AM, Credo in Deum said:

I haven't seen Nihli on here in a while but I think a copy of the article can be found at this link: https://www.fisheaters.com/scruples.html

I stop in on occasion. 

[tinytherese]

I recommend the book Understanding Scrupulosity by Thomas Santa and https://scrupulousanonymous.org/ as resources.

Edited April 11, 2021 by tinytherese

[Ash Wednesday]

On 4/9/2021 at 5:13 PM, fides' Jack said:

Very interesting timing...

This talk popped up in my YouTube feed.  It's a topic I haven't heard this holy priest say much about, before.  It's set to be released this evening: 

 

I finally had time to watch and highly recommend it. Again one of the things I like about Fr. Ripperger is that he will elaborate on the "how and why" -- for example, I knew what absolution was, but up until watching that video, was not familiar with what direct vs. indirect absolution was, or what it means and why one would confess a forgotten mortal sin in submission to the power of the keys. I find this kind of information very helpful because I have a tendency to want to know the "how and why" -- likely because I'm a classic melancholic, detail oriented, prone to anxiety and scruples and often long for clarity and certainty as he explained. It's one thing for a priest to tell you something in passing to put your mind at ease, it's quite another sticky wicket when your mind starts to go down a rabbit hole when you want to know the details and you're attacked with lack of trust and second guessing. 

And yes, here I am... how many times did I say "I" -- like he pointed out in the video.

So with that in mind.....

Thanks be to God for Father Ripperger. 
 

[Ice_nine]

I'm halfway thru the video, it is very helpful.

I have a question. They say if you hide a mortal sin in confession your confession is invalid. Now I guess I wonder, there are sins I have committed where, I definitely should have known they were wrong, but through a mix of immaturity, delusion, poor mental health and tortured logic was able to convince myself that it was OK. It's a point of embarrassment for me, but anyhow

what if you aren't necessarily hiding your sins from the priest, but from yourself? There is a particular habitual sin I engaged in when I was younger, which I should have known was wrong, and maybe on some deeper level I did know was wrong, but was able to delude myself. When convicted of this behavior I confessed it, but did that invalidate my past confessions?

perhaps that's the exact type of question a scrupulous person would ask lol.

[fides' Jack]

I've been in that position before, and I answered for myself, "Yes, it does invalidate any of those confessions."  Of course I'm not you, so I can't speak for you.  If you legitimately believed your own confessions were valid, and weren't trying to hide those sins, then perhaps not.  But in a case like this, depending on how long it's been, I recommend a general confession (as long as you honestly try to give a good confession, and you don't keep returning to more and more general confessions).

[Ash Wednesday]

38 minutes ago, Ice_nine said:

I'm halfway thru the video, it is very helpful.

I have a question. They say if you hide a mortal sin in confession your confession is invalid. Now I guess I wonder, there are sins I have committed where, I definitely should have known they were wrong, but through a mix of immaturity, delusion, poor mental health and tortured logic was able to convince myself that it was OK. It's a point of embarrassment for me, but anyhow

what if you aren't necessarily hiding your sins from the priest, but from yourself? There is a particular habitual sin I engaged in when I was younger, which I should have known was wrong, and maybe on some deeper level I did know was wrong, but was able to delude myself. When convicted of this behavior I confessed it, but did that invalidate my past confessions?

perhaps that's the exact type of question a scrupulous person would ask lol.

I would recommend asking a trustworthy priest. "I convinced myself that it was OK" is probably something they hear a lot.

[Ice_nine]

well, I listened to the whole video. For now I am going to choose to rely on God's mercy, and focus on that instead of trying to, as Fr. Ripperger puts it, gain clarity on my past sins. Because that is a maddening road I've walked down too many times.

[Ice_nine]

22 hours ago, Ash Wednesday said:

I would recommend asking a trustworthy priest. "I convinced myself that it was OK" is probably something they hear a lot.

I think, I probably did at the time. This was approaching ten years ago. I actually confessed the sin twice, upon which the priest told me if I already confessed it before I need to trust God etc etc.

I found Fr. Ripperger's video really helpful, the phorum responses er . . . they kind of lead me down this bad path. "were they invalid? Does that mean these past ten years I've been in mortal sin? Does that render my marriage illicit? Do I have to confess all my sins of the past ten years . . " So I'm going to do my best to take his advice.

So I just prayed a rosary. I'm very thankful to have a Queen in heaven to intercede for me.
 

[Lilllabettt]

10 minutes ago, Ice_nine said:

I think, I probably did at the time. This was approaching ten years ago. I actually confessed the sin twice, upon which the priest told me if I already confessed it before I need to trust God etc etc.

I found Fr. Ripperger's video really helpful, the phorum responses er . . . they kind of lead me down this bad path. "were they invalid? Does that mean these past ten years I've been in mortal sin? Does that render my marriage illicit? Do I have to confess all my sins of the past ten years . . " So I'm going to do my best to take his advice.

So I just prayed a rosary. I'm very thankful to have a Queen in heaven to intercede for me.
 

Something that's given me peace is: if you're not sure something is a mortal sin, it's not a mortal sin, by definition. So if back then you weren't sure, to the point you convinced yourself it was probably OK -  that means it wasn't a mortal sin, subjectively. Therefore not something that would invalidate confession. Mortal sin requires grave matter, knowledge and consent.  

[Nihil Obstat]

Extra wrinkle, not appropriate for the scrupulous, convincing yourself that a gravely sinful act is not sinful could itself be grave matter if your ignorance is culpable. 

[Credo in Deum]

On 4/13/2021 at 2:39 PM, Ice_nine said:

I'm halfway thru the video, it is very helpful.

I have a question. They say if you hide a mortal sin in confession your confession is invalid. Now I guess I wonder, there are sins I have committed where, I definitely should have known they were wrong, but through a mix of immaturity, delusion, poor mental health and tortured logic was able to convince myself that it was OK. It's a point of embarrassment for me, but anyhow

what if you aren't necessarily hiding your sins from the priest, but from yourself? There is a particular habitual sin I engaged in when I was younger, which I should have known was wrong, and maybe on some deeper level I did know was wrong, but was able to delude myself. When convicted of this behavior I confessed it, but did that invalidate my past confessions?

perhaps that's the exact type of question a scrupulous person would ask lol.

You say "which I should have known" and then you say "maybe I did know". You also mentioned this sin was habitual.   A lot of this seems to indicate you didn't have sufficient knowledge regarding the grave nature of the sin but later become aware of it.  Furthermore habitual might also indicate that it was a sin of compulsion, similar to addiction.  It is possible for people suffering addiction to not have the same culpability as someone doing the sin for the first time.  

 

Obviously all of this is speculation on my part and just serves as good reminder for why we should have a regular confessor in our life, lol.  Either way, if it was not your intent to hide a grave sin during confession then I don't believe you are guilty of an invalid confession.  

[Ice_nine]

well it wasn't a sin of compulsion. The more I'm temped to explain the sin, my frame of mind at the time, my accompanying mental illness . . . I think we drift more deeply into self-absorption. Me, my, I, I . . . it's too much.

It's weird this whole thing just struck me almost out of the blue. Ten years after? It's like ugh, I already dealt with the guilt/anxiety and confusion and made amends and now it's coming back again? I think it may be because my anxiety and depression is coming back . . . wonderful. I think I just need to accept I'm going to feel this way for a little bit and press on.

I always hear about having a regular confessor/ spiritual director etc. How does one attain that? I usually just go to the parish priest, and they've been pretty solid over the years, but they swap them out every few years so it's like, I don't know how feasible that is.

Honestly I very much need spiritual direction, but finding it? Especially now with all these restrictions . . . I don't even know what or how to ask.

[tinytherese]

Ten Commandments for the Scrupulous https://scrupulousanonymous.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Ten_Commandments_for_the_Scrupulous_2013.pdf

[Guest]

13 hours ago, tinytherese said:

Ten Commandments for the Scrupulous https://scrupulousanonymous.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Ten_Commandments_for_the_Scrupulous_2013.pdf

Excellent!  Thank you for posting   Many years ago now, I experienced scruples.  I think the above is the best I have ever read on overcoming scruples.

[PhuturePriest]

The thing that has most benefited me in overcoming scrupulosity has been to stop treating it as a purely spiritual issue and addressing it in counseling. I tried for years to overcome it as a spiritual issue, and in seminary I finally broke and asked to go to counseling. My counselor (a solid Catholic layman) explained that he was going to treat it primarily as an expression of an anxiety disorder and to therefore treat it using psychology first with frequent references to God. He taught me that we train our amygdala what to be afraid of by confirming its fearful reaction to the perceived threat (in this instance, confessing something that I am afraid is sinful), and that this then reinforces those neurological pathways to fear this thing as a legitimate threat. He explained that the only way to break the cycle would be to acknowledge the fear (rather than ignoring it, which makes it worse) and then explicitly and firmly not acting on the fear. Because he was Catholic he even theologized the process to make it both psychological and spiritual, so in moments where I was suffering from anxiety over a scruple, I would make this prayer: "Father, I am experiencing anxiety over x. Trusting in you, your goodness, and your desire for my healing, I am not going to confess it." This worked, but I had some reservations: what if I determined something was scrupulosity when it really was a sin? His answer (which has been affirmed by very holy and orthodox priests) was that even in this case, God is understanding of my intentions and desires, and he will not beaver dam me over a mistake. So, I was directed to add this line: "And I trust that, even if I am wrong, you are an understanding and loving Father and will not beaver dam me for it."

This process of counseling over the years has worked wonders in my life. I have experienced such freedom, peace, and closeness with God, and (God willing) in my priestly ministry I desire to care for poor souls afflicted with scrupulosity. It really is an excruciating cross that so few priests understand, and I hope to remedy that in my life.

Scrupulosity is anxiety, and it is a beaver dam lie. It is lying about us and who we are, and it is lying about God and who he is. It feeds on our desire to please God and grow closer to him, all the while driving us further away from him. Because it drives us away from God, we have to fight it with everything we've got. My relationship with God is too important to be lost just because some neurons in my brain are out of whack. God desires for our whole selves to be healed -- body and soul, including our dumb confused neurons that can't parse scruples from a predator -- and he is infinitely understanding, merciful, and loving in that process. Put your total trust in him, not in these lies that have only ever led us into misery and desolation.