Pope Francis Washed The Feet Of 12 Young Detainees

[Basilisa Marie]

Taking liberties with the liturgy and the lack of discipline to enforce and honor the rubrics has been a very serious problem in the Church for the decades now. With Pope Benedict XVI things were getting better, because he lead by example and made great strides to ensure a renewal of the liturgy, ie the Reform of the reform. But now perhaps that is in some danger. Because the Pope whether he knows it or not still leads by example. What he does or does not do will send a message to the faithful.

 

I think that was the point. 

 

I do think people have a very, very legitimate concern with the issue of rubrics.  But I have to wonder...I've seen so many people get in a fuss over all the changes Pope Francis has made, whether or not they're good, if they're troubling, how they're troubling, etc.  But do you think that maybe, just maybe, we focus too much on the "little" things and lose sight of the real point of it all?  Maybe Pope Francis is trying to remind us of the reason why we do all the fancy stuff.  

[ToJesusMyHeart]

I think that was the point. 

 

I do think people have a very, very legitimate concern with the issue of rubrics.  But I have to wonder...I've seen so many people get in a fuss over all the changes Pope Francis has made, whether or not they're good, if they're troubling, how they're troubling, etc.  But do you think that maybe, just maybe, we focus too much on the "little" things and lose sight of the real point of it all?  Maybe Pope Francis is trying to remind us of the reason why we do all the fancy stuff.  

I hope you're right. I hope things start to make sense soon.

[KnightofChrist]

I think that was the point. 
 
I do think people have a very, very legitimate concern with the issue of rubrics.  But I have to wonder...I've seen so many people get in a fuss over all the changes Pope Francis has made, whether or not they're good, if they're troubling, how they're troubling, etc.  But do you think that maybe, just maybe, we focus too much on the "little" things and lose sight of the real point of it all?  Maybe Pope Francis is trying to remind us of the reason why we do all the fancy stuff.

I'm sorry but I don't agree we (Catholic's in general) focus too much on the 'little things'. Rather the little things need to matter more to more Catholics. For far too long now the little things have been belittled, forgotten, and thought of as no big deal. This is an error that must be corrected. Tradition, tradition, and symbolism matter a great deal in Catholicism and they should be cherished.

[Basilisa Marie]

I hope you're right. I hope things start to make sense soon.

 

I think they will.  I mean, heck, he's only been pope for a couple of weeks.  A COUPLE OF WEEKS.  

 

Honestly, though, is our faith really that dependent on the small "t" traditions?  Seriously?  We all trust the Holy Spirit. :)  This is the right man for the job, and if rumors are true then he was a major "candidate" last time around, and he's had a lot of time to think about what it means to be pope and what sort of care the Church needs right now.  

 

There were those people who were uneasy about Benedict's concern for traditional liturgy, but clearly there was no need for alarm.  I'd say the same thing about Francis.  

[ToJesusMyHeart]

I think they will.  I mean, heck, he's only been pope for a couple of weeks.  A COUPLE OF WEEKS.  

 

Honestly, though, is our faith really that dependent on the small "t" traditions?  Seriously?  We all trust the Holy Spirit. :)  This is the right man for the job, and if rumors are true then he was a major "candidate" last time around, and he's had a lot of time to think about what it means to be pope and what sort of care the Church needs right now.  

 

There were those people who were uneasy about Benedict's concern for traditional liturgy, but clearly there was no need for alarm.  I'd say the same thing about Francis.  

Are the rubrics small "t" tradition? Or are they Tradition? 

 

Serious question.

[KnightofChrist]

Honestly, though, is our faith really that dependent on the small "t" traditions?  Seriously?

Kind of a loaded question. But still the traditions and little things do matter a great deal, and should be cherished as treasures given to us by our ancestors and from God as well. Edited March 29, 2013 by KnightofChrist

[Basilisa Marie]

I'm sorry but I don't agree we (Catholic's in general) focus too much on the 'little things'. Rather the little things need to matter more to more Catholics. For far too long now the little things have been belittled, forgotten, and thought of as no big deal. This is an error that must be corrected. Tradition, tradition, and symbolism matter a great deal in Catholicism and they should be cherished.

 

Of course tradition and symbolism matter.  I think that was one of the great things Benedict did with the focus on more traditional liturgy.  I think Francis is trying to say in this case that showing a profound act of symbolic service and humility to some of the "least brothers" is more important than the word "viri."   How many "traditional" minded people do you know who go out and volunteer in a soup kitchen? Do some kind of service to the poor that doesn't involve a check book? Even have the desire to do so?  It may seem like many of the "little things" have been forgotten and belittled, but I think it's worse when people are forgotten and belittled.  Francis didn't celebrate the Chrism mass in the juvenile prison.  Francis did put on the (gorgeous) stole for the ubi et orbi blessing.  I don't think Francis is opposed to the "little things" or the finery in the slightest.  

[Basilisa Marie]

Are the rubrics small "t" tradition? Or are they Tradition? 

 

Serious question.

 

Small 't'.  The word "viri" is small 't' - doesn't make them unimportant, but means they can grow and develop over time.  Something like the words of consecration ("this is my body...") is different.  

[ToJesusMyHeart]

What about the ordination of women? Is that tradition or Tradition?

[Noel's angel]

Bear in mind that changing tradition is different to disregarding a tradition that remains in place. If Pope Francis feels it is appropriate to change a certain tradition, perhaps he should do so, but he should not continue to disregard traditions that are still 'in force'. 

[ToJesusMyHeart]

How many "traditional" minded people do you know who go out and volunteer in a soup kitchen? Do some kind of service to the poor that doesn't involve a check book? Even have the desire to do so?  It may seem like many of the "little things" have been forgotten and belittled, but I think it's worse when people are forgotten and belittled.  

I'm sure you didn't mean for it to come off this way, but it seems like you're saying that Catholics who prefer the TLM don't do acts of charity as often as novus ordo attendees do...

 

To answer your question though, all my traditional friends and I are those such Catholics who prefer the TLM but who also serve at soup kitchens and whose hearts are ripped up when we see the homeless asking for money, but we have none to give them. 

 

But I probably just misunderstand what you're trying to say, and if so, forgive me. 

[Nihil Obstat]

What about the ordination of women? Is that tradition or Tradition?

That is Tradition as well as Scripture and Magisterium. That one has been affirmed and re-affirmed in every conceivable way.

[ToJesusMyHeart]

That is Tradition as well as Scripture and Magisterium. That one has been affirmed and re-affirmed in every conceivable way.

But isn't the washing of male feet also Scripture?

 

I don't think I understand the difference between tradition and Tradition. Can someone briefly explain how something is determined to be either tradition or Tradition?

[Nihil Obstat]

How many "traditional" minded people do you know who go out and volunteer in a soup kitchen? Do some kind of service to the poor that doesn't involve a check book?

Many, actually. I hope you are not implying that traditionally minded Catholics are deficient in serving the poor.

[Basilisa Marie]

I'm sure you didn't mean for it to come off this way, but it seems like you're saying that Catholics who prefer the Traditional Latin Mass don't do acts of charity as often as novus ordo attendees do...

 

To answer your question though, all my traditional friends and I are those such Catholics who prefer the Traditional Latin Mass but who also serve at soup kitchens and whose hearts are ripped up when we see the homeless asking for money, but we have none to give them. 

 

But I probably just misunderstand what you're trying to say, and if so, forgive me. 

 

No, that's what I'm getting at.  There's a stereotype that "traditional" Catholics don't like to go do public works of service, while the "liberal" ones go volunteer and make felt banners.  My point is exactly what you're doing; there shouldn't be this big divorce between serving and good liturgy.  Novus Ordo people are just as bad as anyone else when it comes to serving, btw.  To me it seems like different popes have emphasized different parts of what it means to be Catholic, and we don't have to worry.