Priest Wears Robes With Images Of Superheroes For Kid's Masses

[Amppax]

what amount of playful would be acceptable to you?  (i assume since you say 'too playful', there must be an amount of acceptable playfulness)

 

I was reading the introduction to Pope Benedict's "Spirit of the Liturgy [published when he was Cardinal Ratzinger] and it begins with a discussion of liturgy as "play".  Then again, I don't think that is what we're talking about here.  I haven't read the book though; he might have introduced the idea to refute it.  

 

I read the preview on amazon here: http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Liturgy-Joseph-Cardinal-Ratzinger/dp/0898707846

Edited March 25, 2013 by Amppax

[Apotheoun]

I would prefer to interpret such passages allegorically.

 

However, it's not surprising to see so many people indignant that even the slightest hint of joy or happiness should be allowed to corrupt the formulaic monotony of the Mass. After all, its not what's in our hearts that matters, but whether or not certain rituals are performed with the prescribed clothing, ritual objects, and of course using the right hand gestures. If any of these were to change, the impersonal magic that gives said rituals their efficacy would be lost - or so it would seem.

I am sure the passage about Nadab and Abihu - like all biblical pericopes - is polyvalent, but our personal preferences are not determinative when it comes to the meaning of a biblical text. After all, Catholics are bound by the Church's exegetical tradition.

 

Now as far as the priest's actions are concerned, from an Eastern Christian perspective they are dogmatically inappropriate, because images are not used in worship for aesthetic or entertainment purposes; instead, they are placed in the Church building, upon the sacred vessels, and upon liturgical vestments for the veneration of the faithful. To display fictitious characters on any of these things makes a mockery of the real meaning of sacred images. In this case the priest's actions are in bad taste because they trivialize the Church's beliefs about what is happening during the liturgy. Nevertheless, as I have said a few times now, the priest's desire to entertain the children is not the problem per se, but his choice of venue is improper because it vulgarizes a sacred rite. If he really wants to entertain the children he should do it in a non-liturgical setting.

[T-fish]

Hey, at least the guy is doing something for kids. How many of us are doing that?

 

Jesus Christ Superstar was one of my favorite albums as a kid.

[Apotheoun]

Hey, at least the guy is doing something for kids. How many of us are doing that?

 

Jesus Christ Superstar was one of my favorite albums as a kid.

His desire to connect with the kids is great. He just seems to have no sense of propriety. There is a proper time and place for playing with the kids, and the liturgy is not that time.

[FutureSister2009]

His desire to connect with the kids is great. He just seems to have no sense of propriety. There is a proper time and place for playing with the kids, and the liturgy is not that time.

 

Exactly. I know plenty of Priests who are great at connecting with children and young adults but they don't have to do stupid stuff like this to be able to connect with them. And I am all for getting kids excited about Mass but not in this way.

Edited March 25, 2013 by FutureSister2009

[Nihil Obstat]

I was reading the introduction to Pope Benedict's "Spirit of the Liturgy [published when he was Cardinal Ratzinger] and it begins with a discussion of liturgy as "play".  Then again, I don't think that is what we're talking about here.  I haven't read the book though; he might have introduced the idea to refute it.  

 

I read the preview on amazon here: http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Liturgy-Joseph-Cardinal-Ratzinger/dp/0898707846

That rings a bell for me, but it has been several years now since I read it, so I cannot recall anything about that part. :P

Given what my feelings were on the book when I read it, I do feel comfortable guaranteeing that Pope Benedict was not approving of superhero chasubles and holy-water guns. :smile3:

[Apotheoun]

That rings a bell for me, but it has been several years now since I read it, so I cannot recall anything about that part. :P

Given what my feelings were on the book when I read it, I do feel comfortable guaranteeing that Pope Benedict was not approving of superhero chasubles and holy-water guns. :smile3:

If my memory serves me, the Pope was talking about "play theory" and was applying it analogically to the liturgy. He was not advocating playing at Mass.   :smile2:

[Nihil Obstat]

If my memory serves me, the Pope was talking about "play theory" and was applying it analogically to the liturgy. He was not advocating playing at Mass.   :smile2:

Common sense tells me that you are correct. :)

If I have a chance this evening I will try to find the relevant section in my copy of the book, but it will be fairly late in the day so there is a relatively high probability that it slips my mind.

[Socrates]

Much as I love Batman, he has no place on liturgical vestments.  My boxers are another matter, though.

 

 

On a more serious note, I'm no fan of "children's liturgies," or the age-segregation of the mass in general - which I think is closely related to the whole widespread liturgy-as-entertainment mentality.  It seems your typical American novus ordo mass liturgy and music caters to the entertainment tastes of the baby boomers who have long dominated this sort of thing.  So we need somewhat hipper "edgier" youth masses so the teenyboppers don't get too bored.  And kiddie masses with superheroes, squirt-guns, puppets, and whatnot to keep the young'uns tickled.

 

If kids start out going to these kiddie masses, I think it can help set them up for a lifetime mentality of thinking the liturgy is all about keeping them entertained, and then they are more prone to drop out when the whole mass thing stops being entertaining (as it invariably will).

[Apotheoun]

Much as I love Batman, he has no place on liturgical vestments.  My boxers are another matter, though.

 

 

On a more serious note, I'm no fan of "children's liturgies," or the age-segregation of the mass in general - which I think is closely related to the whole widespread liturgy-as-entertainment mentality.  It seems your typical American novus ordo mass liturgy and music caters to the entertainment tastes of the baby boomers who have long dominated this sort of thing.  So we need somewhat hipper "edgier" youth masses so the teenyboppers don't get too bored.  And kiddie masses with superheroes, squirt-guns, puppets, and whatnot to keep the young'uns tickled.

 

If kids start out going to these kiddie masses, I think it can help set them up for a lifetime mentality of thinking the liturgy is all about keeping them entertained, and then they are more prone to drop out when the whole mass thing stops being entertaining (as it invariably will).

I agree.

 

As I said a few years ago: I do not believe that ". . . there should be a special class of liturgies called children's liturgies or children's liturgies of the Word. Children should worship God with their parents in union with the whole Christian community."

[MissScripture]

I appreciate the way our parish approaches it. At a "Children's Mass" one of the Sunday School classes will read the petitions, help the ushers with the collection, carry up the gifts and sing the song after communion. Father will more directly address them in the homily (though, he typically does address the kids and explain things on their level if there are children in attendance), but he doesn't dumb it down, if that makes sense. He simply puts it into language they understand. But those are the only differences between a "Children's Mass" and a regular Mass at our parish. Nothing hokey, nothing lame and nothing disrespectful. 

[Tony]

I appreciate the way our parish approaches it. At a "Children's Mass" one of the Sunday School classes will read the petitions, help the ushers with the collection, carry up the gifts and sing the song after communion. Father will more directly address them in the homily (though, he typically does address the kids and explain things on their level if there are children in attendance), but he doesn't dumb it down, if that makes sense. He simply puts it into language they understand. But those are the only differences between a "Children's Mass" and a regular Mass at our parish. Nothing hokey, nothing lame and nothing disrespectful. 

 

That's how my Parish does children's Mass. Except sometimes I can't understand what the kids are saying :hehe2:

Edited March 26, 2013 by Tony

[FutureSister2009]

My elementary school has the kids go to Mass every Friday, unless there is a Holy Day of Obligation that week, then they will go then to make sure they get to Mass. The kids read, bring up the gifts, sing and our Pastor gives great homilies and asks them questions to ensure they know their faith, and they really do. It's so great to see and that's how it should be.

[DiscerningCatholic]

This was my response:

 

No, [this is not a cool thing to do for children's Masses]. This waters down the liturgy, takes all reverence out of the Mass, and doesn’t show children the true nature of the Mass. People complain about the lack of reverence from teens and adults during Mass; the irreverence starts right here. When you baptize people with a squirt gun, wear Marvel heroes on your chasuble, and let children do a rain dance around the altar, the children not only see a lack of respect from the adults - and the priest himself - but they learn that it is normal and is the way to act in church. The Mass is not about entertainment. The best “children’s Mass” is a Mass where the children see the true nature of the Mass in its normal form, not some dumbed down Mass-turned-barn-dance. 

 

Turning the Mass into something like this and saying that “It’s better for the children!” completely desecrates something that is supposed to be sacred, reverent, and different from everything else you do. You wouldn’t show your children a rough sketch of the beach instead of taking them there to see the real beach, and tell them that, “This is all you need to see for right now,” would you? Don’t treat the Mass like a clown show. The Mass is not done for the sake of entertaining you. This is the Catholic Church; not the “people’s church,” as some like to call it.

 

Don’t hide children from the beauty of the true Mass. You don’t shield children from things like the beach, or the sunrise, or the Grand Canyon because it might be “too overwhelming” or “boring”; don’t shield children from the greatest mysteries and the greatest beauty on earth. They might not understand it at first, but they won’t understand it later if all they know is stupid liturgical abuses like a “superhero Mass.” 

 

A church that lacks mystery NEEDS entertainment. We’re not Protestant. The Mass is not about entertainment.

 

 

Bear in mind that I wrote this on Tumblr and was speaking to a completely different audience than I am here.

 

ETA: Yes, I know that I got the brand of superheroes wrong. Oh well.

Edited March 26, 2013 by DiscerningCatholic

[Amppax]

That rings a bell for me, but it has been several years now since I read it, so I cannot recall anything about that part. :P

Given what my feelings were on the book when I read it, I do feel comfortable guaranteeing that Pope Benedict was not approving of superhero chasubles and holy-water guns. :smile3:

 

 

If my memory serves me, the Pope was talking about "play theory" and was applying it analogically to the liturgy. He was not advocating playing at Mass.   :smile2:

 

 

Common sense tells me that you are correct. :)

If I have a chance this evening I will try to find the relevant section in my copy of the book, but it will be fairly late in the day so there is a relatively high probability that it slips my mind.

 

Yes sorry, I realized that.  It was more that it popped into my head reading the thread and so I posted that.