CrossCuT Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 I like this website: http://www.quackwatch.com/03HealthPromotion/immu/autism.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-fish Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Elizabeth, I believe you. I am sorry that the vaccination had an ill effect on you as well as many others throughout the world. Let us pray that they too find strength and healing in God Almighty. Sometimes all we can do is pray. I think you can see that some don't get it. Sometimes it is better to see God through our disabilities than to not see Him at all. Keep praying for those who have been harmed by the medical indu$try. May God bless you and keep you. Don't give up your fight. + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 In general, I distrust the medical system that we have now, for personal reasons, and because we have things like abortion, euthanasia, Obamacare, etc... In this country, it's a messed up system, and it's only getting worse. So far the best argument for the MMR vaccine that I've seen is also a fallacy - we have statistics that say that cases of measles, mumps, and rubella have gone up X% since yada yada yada. But nowhere have I seen what percentage of those cases involved people were actually had the vaccine. Sources/real stats anyone? Still no substantial evidence to back up any link what so ever. I think it falls on the medical system to disprove the link. The book is not closed - how long has the vaccine been out? How could there possibly be any real long-term studies on its affects? It's impossible for a judge to rule that a vaccine caused autism, because the causes of autism are not known (although the bulk of medical evidence suggests that it has a strong genetic component, and it's widely accepted in the scientific community that autistic people are in fact born with autism). If a judge really did declare a vaccine to have caused autism, then he has broken with the medical establishment and also gone well beyond his competence and role as a judge. Legal training doesn't really equip you with great knowledge on the etiology of neurodevelopmental disorders. His role as a judge is to determine whether the scientific facts involved are enough to make a case legally binding - in this case, the family got a bunch of money. That's what he did. I don't think he overstepped his bounds at all. That's what he's there for. He didn't rule that it actually caused autism - I used the words "clearly showed", but they were slightly different in the report I read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 (edited) I think it falls on the medical system to disprove the link. They have already given overwhelming evidence to the contrary!! :stars: Study after study is showing just how much quackery these claims are! His role as a judge is to determine whether the scientific facts involved are enough to make a case legally binding - in this case, the family got a bunch of money. That's what he did. I don't think he overstepped his bounds at all. That's what he's there for. He didn't rule that it actually caused autism - I used the words "clearly showed", but they were slightly different in the report I read. I would suggest getting your information about scientific facts from a scientists not a judge. You wouldn't go to an English teacher to help you with your math homework. Those who have devoted their careers to studying and understanding science, medicine, or whathaveyou are the ones you should be looking to for the answers on this topic. Edited March 25, 2013 by CrossCuT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 They have already given overwhelming evidence to the contrary!! :stars: Study after study is showing just how much quackery these claims are! I would suggest getting your information about scientific facts from a scientists not a judge. You wouldn't go to an English teacher to help you with your math homework. Those who have devoted their careers to studying and understanding science, medicine, or whathaveyou are the ones you should be looking to for the answers on this topic. You misunderstand - I'm asking you for the evidence. Give me a link to just one of these actual reports - not some site talking about them. It would help if it was in the last year or two, also, since more of this stuff is coming up again. Also, again, the judge isn't making scientific pronouncements. He's making legal decisions pertaining to the "victim" and the accused about facts as given him by competent scientists (I assume, anyway). My point with this is simple - if the scientists can't convince the judge, then either the judge is biased (very possible, given the nature of the case), or the "facts" aren't satisfactory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregorMendel Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Seriously, just learned how to use an academic search engine. It would help circumvent many arguments that descend into pedagogical attacks i see here. Ebsco host, PubMed, even Google Scholar, all are acceptable. Go find the info for yourself. Its not up to us to debase your positionif youre so stubborn and unwilling to challenge it yourself. Furthermore, I know from collegiate level debate team and mock trial and my studies in graduate and medical level science courses that there is a gigantic gap between what is accepted as definitive in scientific contexts and what similar metrics are capable of proving in a court room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Seriously, just learned how to use an academic search engine. It would help circumvent many arguments that descend into pedagogical attacks i see here. Ebsco host, PubMed, even Google Scholar, all are acceptable. Go find the info for yourself. Its not up to us to debase your positionif youre so stubborn and unwilling to challenge it yourself. Furthermore, I know from collegiate level debate team and mock trial and my studies in graduate and medical level science courses that there is a gigantic gap between what is accepted as definitive in scientific contexts and what similar metrics are capable of proving in a court room. Point taken. Honestly I was hoping that someone here would provide links to stuff. I started to do my own research and that's the only reason I'm posting here. Unfortunately I can't continue at the moment due to my own time limitations. But I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I don't like all vaccines - some, including MMR, are most likely more beneficial than hurtful - at least statistically. Others, like chicken pox, we will not be giving to our kids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyAnn Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Point taken. Honestly I was hoping that someone here would provide links to stuff. I started to do my own research and that's the only reason I'm posting here. Unfortunately I can't continue at the moment due to my own time limitations. But I'm just playing devil's advocate here. I don't like all vaccines - some, including MMR, are most likely more beneficial than hurtful - at least statistically. Others, like chicken pox, we will not be giving to our kids. http://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/committee/topics/mmr/mmr_autism/en/ http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs286/en/index.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Thanks! Oh - in the first link, the full report is not available. And it's 10 years old. Can anyone find anything more current? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyAnn Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 http://www.theannals.com/content/45/10/1302 http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/4/456 http://www.nature.com/clpt/journal/v82/n6/full/6100407a.html http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-7610.2005.01425.x/abstract;jsessionid=A08F058799D41EF6909A847620468E9D.d02t03 Note: you may not be able to access the full text of these from the links - I get access because I have a college log-in. But the abstracts will tell you what the studies found. Try searching them on Google Scholar if you want to find the full text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissScripture Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 Another great place to find peer-reviewed research: http://highwire.stanford.edu/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrestia Posted March 25, 2013 Share Posted March 25, 2013 It's perfectly normal to be biased by experience. I received two full sets of vaccines. I was vaccinated properly as an infant, then my parents moved me to the USA. The doctors here refused to accept my foreign medical records, so I got everything again a couple years later. Because of my experience, I think vaccines are mostly harmless. If my mom noticed something strange after all those shots, I'd probably mistrust vaccines too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth09 Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 Elizabeth, I believe you. I am sorry that the vaccination had an ill effect on you as well as many others throughout the world. Let us pray that they too find strength and healing in God Almighty. Sometimes all we can do is pray. I think you can see that some don't get it. Sometimes it is better to see God through our disabilities than to not see Him at all. Keep praying for those who have been harmed by the medical indu$try. May God bless you and keep you. Don't give up your fight. + That is okay, because I want my story to be heard. I want the stories to be told. I bet there are many stories, beside mine, waiting to be told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the171 Posted March 26, 2013 Share Posted March 26, 2013 Have you ever thought that maybe the vaccine wasn't the cause? TL;DR most of this thread. But you had said earlier than it was your mother who told you this. Sometimes speech problems develop with time. I feel like this thread is littered with logical fallacies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth09 Posted March 26, 2013 Author Share Posted March 26, 2013 I was allergenic to it. My parents had no idea about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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