Vaccinate And Why They Are Bad

[Slappo]

A number of extremely serious and lethal illness have now been eliminated or significantly reduced because of vaccinations.

 

In the Victorian era, tuberculosis was rampant in the UK. People were losing their lives to consumption by the thousands. The TB vaccine changed that.

 

MMR? The anti-vaccine crowd talk about these illnesses as if they're just natural childhood ailments that don't require intervention. Those diseases can kill, or leave children with significant sensory impairments - blindness, deafness. It boggles my mind that one pseudo-scientific study by a doctor who has since been forbidden to practise medicine has got parents too scared to immunise their kids against those illnesses. They should look at what the child mortality rate was like before the onset of widespread immunisation. Or just look at a country in the developing world where parents sometimes walk for literally days in order to get their kids to a clinic for vaccinations.

 

Some people will have adverse reactions to jabs. Some people have bad reactions to all sorts of medicines. That's inevitable. But on the whole I think we're better off with them.

 

for MMR unfortunately there are moral concerns with the fact that the vaccine in America is produced with reproduced aborted fetal tissue. There used to be a measles and mumps separate vaccine you could get but it is no longer being made. There's a rubella separate vaccine that has never been available in the US.

 

We chose to vaccinate MMR because we live in a very high tourist area where visitors from other countries may not be vaccinated and could potentially be carrying the diseases. If we lived in a rural area where tourism and outside visitors were scarce we may not have vaccinated due to significantly decreased risk of contracting the disease and to not have proximate participation in medical practices involving aborted children.

[EmilyAnn]

It certainly doesn't imply a lack of causation, either. Thus I don't know how you get the second statement from the first.

I didn't get the second statement from the first. I've made several other posts in this thread explaining it more fully. 

[CrossCuT]

Any perceived link between Autism and vaccines is pseudoscience.  :idontknow:

 

The evidence is in. The scientific community has reached a clear consensus that vaccines don’t cause autism. There is no controversy.

There is, however, a manufactroversy — a manufactured controversy — created by junk science, dishonest researchers, professional misconduct, outright fraud, lies, misrepresentations, irresponsible reporting, unfortunate media publicity, poor judgment, celebrities who think they are wiser than the whole of medical science, and a few maverick doctors who ought to know better. Thousands of parents have been frightened into rejecting or delaying immunizations for their children. The immunization rate has dropped, resulting in the return of endemic measles in the U.K. and various outbreaks of vaccine-preventable diseases in the U.S. children have died. Herd immunity has been lost. The public health consequences are serious and are likely to get worse before they get better — a load of unscientific nonsense has put us all at risk.

http://www.skeptic.com/eskeptic/09-06-03/?gclid=COyD0J7xjbYCFYSK4AodZAUAHA#feature

 

[CrossCuT]

The evidence for even that tenuous link is hotly debated. "If MMR made autism worse, then we would expect to see different rates [between vaccinated and unvaccinated children] in cases of both autism and related disorders," says Dr. Kreesten Madsen, the epidemiologist who led the Danish study. But that difference did not show up.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1003673,00.html#ixzz2OBHDcjct

 

[TheresaThoma]

Doctors are seeing more and more disease we thought we has gotten rid of come back. This is due to lack of "herd immunity" basically if all of the population that can recieve the vaccine get it then the disease can't spread to others who can't get the vaccine (pregnant or nursing mothers, those who the vaccine doesn't work for etc).

I think about a year ago there was a little girl who almost died of Menegitis. Her parents didn't know how she had gotten it because she had been vacinnated. It turns out she has a rare condition where vaccines don't just work. So how she got it was another kid who wasn't vaccinated contracted it (there were a handful of cases in the state at the time) and then passed it to her. She was the only vaccinated person that got it and this could have been prevented if the others had opted to get vaccinated. Two college aged kids here in CO contracted menegitis and one died and the other ended up having to have his arms and legs amputated to save his life. The spread of this very nasty strain was stopped by getting those who weren't vaccinated.

 With all the international travel going on diseases can be spread so fast even if someone doesn't think they are in a at risk area they can still get it. 

[CrossCuT]

Myth: Children get too many shots, too early.

Vaccines are a trivial challenge to what children typically encounter and manage every day, said Paul Offit, chief of the Division of Infectious Diseases and the director of the Vaccine Education Center at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia. Their bodies constantly face things in their environment that challenge their immune systems to work hard, such as bacteria that line our skin, nose, throat and intestines, as well as bacteria in food, water and the air.

Immunologists at the University of California, San Diego looked into the number of immunological challenges a person can respond to at one time. After considering the variety of compounds in vaccines, including bacterial proteins, bacterial polysaccharides and viral proteins, Offit explained, they calculated that young children could safely respond to as many as 100,000 vaccines at once. The CDC recommends children get vaccinated against 14 diseases over a two-year period.

 

http://www.myhealthnewsdaily.com/509-dangerous-vaccination-myths.html 

 

 

[LadyOfSorrows]

Haven't had any vaccinations since the age of four...(except meningitis) and proud of it. When/if I have children, I will vaccinate them when their brains are more maturely formed.

[LadyOfSorrows]

And true, while we know that the MMR does not CAUSE Autism, there is something to be said about the triple whopper vaccination in one, combined with the doses of mercury. There is still debate that it can be a trigger for autism, but not necessarily causing autism. You must be careful where you're getting your information from. Merck is VERY heavily protected by the government...

[CrossCuT]

Thiomersal is used at extremely low doses as a mercury-containing preservative for some vaccines. There is no indication that it is linked to autism based studies done in 2011.

 

 The current scientific consensus is that no convincing scientific evidence supports these claims,^[2][3] and a 2011 journal article described the vaccine-autism connection as "the most damaging medical hoax of the last 100 years".
^{[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiomersal_controversy)}

 

There is an article I posted above about a Danish study dispelling the fears of even a remote link to vaccines aiding in Autism in any way. I also dont understand fully the difference between "causing" Autism and "triggering" it. Seems like you indicate there is in fact a difference in terminology that I am unaware of.

 

But considering you are still planning to give your child vaccines seems to mean that the mercury doesnt bother you enough to NOT get them at all. But I think it is a dangerous slope anyone would be treading on with your child to forgo vaccines especially when they are younger.

And concerning the triple vaccine, as stated above, the immune system is very resilient and handles much more stuff on a day to day basis than the vaccines expose you to. And to be clear, you arent exposing your child to anything harmful! Vaccines are made up of parts or "deactivated" pathogens that do not cause any harm to you.

Edited March 21, 2013 by CrossCuT

[LadyOfSorrows]

Thiomersal is used at extremely low doses as a mercury-containing preservative for some vaccines. There is no indication that it is linked to autism based studies done in 2011.

 

 

There is an article I posted above about a Danish study dispelling the fears of even a remote link to vaccines aiding in Autism in any way. I also dont understand fully the difference between "causing" Autism and "triggering" it. Seems like you indicate there is in fact a difference in terminology that I am unaware of.

 

But considering you are still planning to give your child vaccines seems to mean that the mercury doesnt bother you enough to NOT get them at all. But I think it is a dangerous slope anyone would be treading on with your child to forgo vaccines especially when they are younger.

And concerning the triple vaccine, as stated above, the immune system is very resilient and handles much more stuff on a day to day basis than the vaccines expose you to. And to be clear, you arent exposing your child to anything harmful! Vaccines are made up of parts or "deactivated" pathogens that do not cause any harm to you.

 

Thiomersal even in low doses I wouldn't trust with a young child. It's not even necessary. I know they are beginning to phase it out, which I'm happy about. There have been studies showing that there may be a particular gene linked to autism and the harsh exposure to vaccinations like the MMR at an early age may somehow activate it. This is still speculative, of course. We do know that with my brother, his autism WAS triggered. He was perfectly normal and developing just fine until he received the MMR vaccination. Causation? Who knows.

 

Studies have shown that potential side effects of vaccinations lessen if the child is a bit older and the brain is more maturely formed. The immune system is resilient, yes, but this takes time. Which is why there has been recent argument for waiting on the vaccinations.

[CrossCuT]

You should link me these studies because its is overwhelmingly supported in the scientific community that there is no link between autism and vaccines.  :idontknow: 

Anecdotal evidence has really no bearing on the actual reasoning behind your brothers development of Autism and I am sorry to hear about it  :( . It is unfortunately a very widely misinformed notion that these two things are related because its something people SEE happening so they assume that there can be no other cause.

The body is an amazing and complex machine where any number of biological process could lead to the results you see on the surface. I would be very fascinated to find an article discussing how a vaccine may cause/trigger a neurological disorder from a biochemical level. I may have to do some homework to fully understand why people believe these connections exist because there is no hard data to prove it in any sense; only speculation and anecdotes. 

 

But I will re link an article covering a study done in 2011 

 

Any rite of passage that involves jabbing needles into small children is bound to worry more than a few parents. But that doesn't begin to explain why so many moms and dads are convinced--despite mounting scientific evidence to the contrary--that the triple vaccine against measles, mumps and rubella (MMR) causes autism in some youngsters. The latest study exonerating the MMR vaccine comes from Denmark, where investigators looked at the health records of every child born from 1991 through '98, more than 537,000 children. No matter how researchers analyzed the data, there was no difference in the autism rates of children who received the MMR vaccine and those who did not.

The Danish findings, which were published in the New England Journal of Medicine last week, are persuasive for several reasons. Denmark's socialized medical system has generated one of the most complete health records of any country. So the investigators were able to document accurately both sides of the equation: those who were (or were not) vaccinated and those who developed autism. Even when other factors, such as age at vaccination, were taken into account, there was no difference in autism rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated children. There was no clustering of autism diagnoses in the weeks and months after vaccination. There was no difference in the number of diagnoses of other developmental disorders related to autism in the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups.

Other epidemiological studies over the past four years have come to similar conclusions, but none has been so large and so complete as the Danish study. Indeed, the accumulated evidence is strong enough to convince even onetime proponents of the MMR-autism link, like Dr. Jeff Bradstreet, director of the International Child Development Resource Center in Palm Bay, Fla. "MMR does not appear to cause autism," Bradstreet concedes. "If it did, it would be a godsend because we could change the vaccine and that would be it." Still, he suspects that the MMR vaccine might worsen a pre-existing autistic condition.

The evidence for even that tenuous link is hotly debated. "If MMR made autism worse, then we would expect to see different rates [between vaccinated and unvaccinated children] in cases of both autism and related disorders," says Dr. Kreesten Madsen, the epidemiologist who led the Danish study. But that difference did not show up.

More and more, it seems as though the focus on the MMR vaccine has been a colossal distraction in autism research--and in parental concern. Just as a few eyewitness reports made in good faith led police to focus on a white van in the search for the Beltway snipers and overlook the blue Caprice, the controversy over MMR may have prompted parents of autistic children to focus too intently on vaccination. The latest research suggests that the disorder begins in the womb--long before any vaccines are given. There is also intriguing evidence of abnormalities in the immune system. But there is no evidence that the MMR vaccine causes autism.

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1003673,00.html#ixzz2ODOpIy7r

 

Edited March 21, 2013 by CrossCuT

[homeschoolmom]

Moving to debate....

[elizabeth09]

The link works.  With my story, there is no way that I want my children, if any, vaccinations.

[Archaeology cat]

Also, it was the one whooping cough, or whatever and I have asthma and I ALWAYS have terrible coughs when I get sick and I do wonder if there was a connection. Then again, people born under my astrological sign are prone to diseases of the lungs. :|

Yes, it was the pertussis portion that my eldest reacted to (yes, we know it was that), so he is advised to strongly consider the risks of getting another pertussis jab.  

I think you're oversimplifying the issue. I would certainly say that antibiotics can be bad. In the US these days, they mostly are used in a bad way, in ways that cause more problems than they solve. Neither vaccinations nor antibiotics are intrinsically good. What we do with them makes them so or not. It is possible to abuse antibiotics just as it possible to abuse vaccines. Or anything else, for that matter. In my opinion, most drugs these days prescribed by GPs (in America) are prescribed abusively. I'm not talking about painkillers and things prescribed to addicts, but things like antibiotics prescribed to people "just to be sure", because "it's better to be safe than sorry"—at least until you've prescribed so many antibiotics nationwide that you suddenly find out you've been feeding the antibiotic-resistant super-strains of God knows what your entire medical career.
 
Not good.

That was actually somewhat my point. Vaccines, abx, etc are not intrinsically bad or good. They can help when used properly as needed; they can harm if used improperly or when a person has an adverse reaction.

[zabbazooey]

http://www.jennymccarthybodycount.com/Anti-Vaccine_Body_Count/Home.html

 

Vaccines are good.