elizabeth09 Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 Do you mean The Giver by Lois Lowry? I love that book. :) The reason for the government's existence is to legitamately and justly exercise power. Requiring vaccinization is like making sure that sewer systems and electric grids work. It has been determined by professionals that vaccinization decreases the spread of deadly diseases and so the government works to keep its citizens alive by requiring them. Yes. I think that every one has a mind, and their own ideas on how countries should be running. The Giver is our future. If we let that happen, the we will never have ours own ideas, have talents, or picks out our own jobs. Its fores in The Giver. Yes, I read the studies and research reports. :) I know you aren't trying to mislead, so no worries there. I don't fear vaccines, or the diseases, for that matter, for I don't find fear to be conducive to good decision-making (for me, at least). Thus I look at the data. I tend to analyze things a lot. I will also look at those who have studied the material, but place more weight on the research reports, whle also looking at the researchers backgrounds and conflicts of interest, if such exist. I look to see what the data say, not what I want it to say. Nor do I make a conclusion and then search for data to support it. the problem I have with requiring it is that we should have he freedom to make our own medical decisions. Vaccines aren't compulsory in England, yet I could count on one hand the people who either spaced out the jabs while still getting all of them, skipped certain ones, or declined all jabs. Mandating vaccines isn't he only way to get the jabs done. Yes, you can get exemptions in he US, but I still have a problem with it being required. Required? Every parent has the right to vaccination their children. They should never be required by anyone under their own rights. I fear vaccines now then ever because what happen to me, even when there is a cure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 why do so many topics on here turn into government fear mongering? Anarchy does not work, yet people seem to think that's the best course. The government has a legit purpose in this and every country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elizabeth09 Posted April 12, 2013 Author Share Posted April 12, 2013 Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 (edited) Double. Edited April 12, 2013 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 why do so many topics on here turn into government fear mongering? Anarchy does not work, yet people seem to think that's the best course. The government has a legit purpose in this and every country. There is a world of difference between calling the state what it is (evil, tyrannical, morally bankrupt) and simply being anti-science based on emotional arguments. Kindly do not confuse the two. They have precious little in common. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted April 12, 2013 Share Posted April 12, 2013 There is a world of difference between calling the state what it is (evil, tyrannical, morally bankrupt) and simply being anti-science based on emotional arguments. Kindly do not confuse the two. They have precious little in common. Thank you. There's also that there isn't always (ever?) a one-size-fits-all answer since there are always exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 There is a world of difference between calling the state what it is (evil, tyrannical, morally bankrupt) and simply being anti-science based on emotional arguments. Kindly do not confuse the two. They have precious little in common. i'm not confusing the two. someone in this topic brought up if we want the government to make all our decisions for us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 i'm not confusing the two. someone in this topic brought up if we want the government to make all our decisions for us. And you are conflating distrust of the state with distrust of vaccinations. They are separate issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 And you are conflating distrust of the state with distrust of vaccinations. They are separate issues. exactly. Though I don't know that I'm technically anarchist. I'm certainly not anti-science, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
havok579257 Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 And you are conflating distrust of the state with distrust of vaccinations. They are separate issues. not at all. i am just making an observation that a lot of topics on phatmass turn into an evil goverment complaints. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted April 13, 2013 Share Posted April 13, 2013 not at all. i am just making an observation that a lot of topics on phatmass turn into an evil goverment complaints. The government has its hand tendrils in literally every aspect of public life. :idontknow: What do you expect? However that aside, it is still misleading to try to frame this as an anti-state issue. It is a scientific/medical issue first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted April 14, 2013 Share Posted April 14, 2013 Well, I must take at least partial blame for bringing the government into the discussion, since I did say I don't think the government should mandate vaccines (I don't think mandating is necessary). That has nothing to do with distrusting the medical science and everything to do with not wanting the government to mandate what medical treatments one must get. But yes, it is a bit tangential. Mea culpa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Autism is on the rise partially because the definition of Autism has expanded. The new diagnostic criteria is responsible for a significant portion of the increase. one reference: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1469-8749.2008.02057.x/full Another reason is general awareness. A friend of mine was just referred to a professional to have their child evaluated for Autism. Why? A daycare teacher saw their 2 year old running in circles. That's it. The child has perfect social interactions and is affectionate, but a daycare teacher sees repetitive behavior and immediately thinks of Autism. With that kind of vigilance, there is bound to be an increase in false positives. A third reason is increases in parental age. This goes for both mom and dad, but the effect isn't additive. Perfectly reasonable response. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 So let me get this straight. This is what you just said... "I don't look at primary sources for any info" - meaning you have no knowledge of any information. then you said "sources from the media are almost always incorrect" - meaning you do have knowledge of the correct information... So I must assume this can only mean that you possess some sort super power that allows you to know all things without every learning them. That's amesome. What else can you do? My other super powers include being able to write coherently, and an inherent ability to generalize the truth more than it deserves. Actually, it seems we both possess the latter ability - YAY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quid Est Veritas? Posted April 16, 2013 Share Posted April 16, 2013 Sorry, Nihil. I will try to stay on topic in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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