dairygirl4u2c Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 isn't this a contradiction of papal teaching? Pope Pius XII addressed the issue of evolution in a 1950 encyclical, Humani Generis. Here he makes plain his fervent hope that evolution will prove to be a passing scientific fad while attacking those persons who "imprudently and indiscreetly hold that evolution " explains the origin of all things." He wrote: "Fictitious tenets of evolution which repudiate all that is absolute, firm and immutable, have paved the way for the new erroneous philosophy which, rivaling idealism, immanentism and pragmatism, has assumed the name of existentialism, since it concerns itself only with existence of individual things and neglects all consideration of their immutable essences." is it that one could argue encyclicals are not necessarily infallible documents? they could be, all depends on the intention of the pope writing it? what evidences are there in this case, pro and con? i could i think find some quotes of popes saying evolution is true. but i am assuming it's scientifically validated, evolution. perhaps i shouldnt be so quick to think this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 i guess one could also say that the tenants like God doesn't exist are what's ficticious... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCid Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 isn't this a contradiction of papal teaching? Pope Pius XII addressed the issue of evolution in a 1950 encyclical, Humani Generis. Here he makes plain his fervent hope that evolution will prove to be a passing scientific fad while attacking those persons who "imprudently and indiscreetly hold that evolution " explains the origin of all things." He wrote: "Fictitious tenets of evolution which repudiate all that is absolute, firm and immutable, have paved the way for the new erroneous philosophy which, rivaling idealism, immanentism and pragmatism, has assumed the name of existentialism, since it concerns itself only with existence of individual things and neglects all consideration of their immutable essences." is it that one could argue encyclicals are not necessarily infallible documents? they could be, all depends on the intention of the pope writing it? what evidences are there in this case, pro and con? i could i think find some quotes of popes saying evolution is true. but i am assuming it's scientifically validated, evolution. perhaps i shouldnt be so quick to think this? This seems more so linguistic confusion then anything else. Pius XII rejected evolutionary theory which attempts to usurp God's role as Creator. He did not reject an evolutionary theory which recognizes the hand of a Creator. From Humani Generis, paragraph 36: For these reasons the Teaching Authority of the Church does not forbid that, in conformity with the present state of human sciences and sacred theology, research and discussions, on the part of men experienced in both fields, take place with regard to the doctrine of evolution, in as far as it inquires into the origin of the human body as coming from pre-existent and living matter - for the Catholic faith obliges us to hold that souls are immediately created by God. However, this must be done in such a way that the reasons for both opinions, that is, those favorable and those unfavorable to evolution, be weighed and judged with the necessary seriousness, moderation and measure, and provided that all are prepared to submit to the judgment of the Church, to whom Christ has given the mission of interpreting authentically the Sacred Scriptures and of defending the dogmas of faith.[11] Some however, rashly transgress this liberty of discussion, when they act as if the origin of the human body from pre-existing and living matter were already completely certain and proved by the facts which have been discovered up to now and by reasoning on those facts, and as if there were nothing in the sources of divine revelation which demands the greatest moderation and caution in this question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reyb Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 To make it short, the theory of evolution is correct provided it will not go against Catholic faith. Truth therefore rested on Catholic faith (period). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 i feel the inquiery was satisfactorarily answered. i posted this thread because i was looking for information i did not possess. not that i was really arguing the point to begin with, but i concede the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 as far as i'm aware the evolution of man is still not fact, there are to many missing links. And also your right, encyclical letters are not infalible matters of faith and morals, i will tell you some of these infallible matters that i learnt recently. 1. The supremecy of the pope as christs vicar on earth. 2.The magesterium of the church. 3.The sacrifice of the mass. 4.The absolution in confession. 5. The real and perpetual presence of jesus in the eucharist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 as far as i'm aware the evolution of man is still not fact, there are to many missing links as i assume also evolution in general. And also your right, encyclical letters are not infalible matters of faith and morals, i will tell you some of these infallible matters that i learnt recently. 1. The supremecy of the pope as christs vicar on earth. 2.The magesterium of the church. 3.The sacrifice of the mass. 4.The absolution in confession. 5. The real and perpetual presence of jesus in the eucharist.... Well actually unsure if there infallible matters of faith and morals but this book i read said these 5 are most important to be believed by catholic christians above all other doctrine of the church. I guess there are 2 more somone told me but unsure if there church doctrine and that is 1. The immaculate conception. and 2. Mary's assumption mind,heart,body and soul into heaven. But than this book says the original 5 i mentioned far out rank all other doctrine of the church and must be believed, but than again the nihil obstat and imprimateur do not mean a book is absolutely mistake free, though nihil obstat means nothing contrary to faith it means as far as i'm aware is a gesture that the writer has not intended delibrately to mislead or decieve anyone in matters of faith, not that the written works are perfect. Hope that all helps. God bless you. Onward christian souls. JESUS iz LORD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted March 30, 2013 Share Posted March 30, 2013 Sorry to inform you but we never argued that Encyclicals are infallible documents to begin with. There is no such thing as an infallible Papal document anyway, only infallible Papal statements. Otherwise I think you're grasping for straws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted March 30, 2013 Author Share Posted March 30, 2013 ive heard papal documents are a matter of interpretaion as to whether infallible... are they teaching the church in faith and morals, or jsut writing ? and i don't see much of a differene between papal documents and statements. can you clarify the differences? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 (edited) actually i was told the 2 doctrines about the holy mother also have been spoken on as infallible matters of faith and morals. 1. Her Immaculate conception and 2. Her assumption into heaven mind,heart,body and soul. The person that told me may be wrong, does anyone know ? Edited March 31, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tab'le De'Bah-Rye Posted March 31, 2013 Share Posted March 31, 2013 also as far as i'm aware the holy catholic church is agnostic on the matter of evolution, neither yes or no until it is proved without a doubt. Also did you all know the church is also somewhat agnostic on the creation story and adam and eve, but this can not be proven till heaven i guess, but as far as i'm aware she says it is neither wrong or contrary to faith to believe it as a spiritual story or as actuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 and i don't see much of a differene between papal documents and statements. can you clarify the differences? A documment is a collection of statements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted April 1, 2013 Share Posted April 1, 2013 [attachment=3130:3520_586325438044893_239032568_n.jpg] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted April 11, 2013 Share Posted April 11, 2013 ive heard papal documents are a matter of interpretaion as to whether infallible... are they teaching the church in faith and morals, or jsut writing ? and i don't see much of a differene between papal documents and statements. can you clarify the differences? I think you heard wrong. The very definition of an infallible teaching makes it clear that when a pope is speaking infallibly, there's no confusion that he's doing so. Basically he has to say: "Hey everyone, this statement is infallible: YADDA YADDA YADDA". However, that doesn't mean we aren't obliged to believe the non-infallible statements. Unless we have the word of a higher ecclesiastical authority, we are obliged to believe in truths of faith or morals when given to us by the Church - even if they are not infallibly proclaimed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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