Evangetholic Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) This thread is funny because one of the greatest schisms in the history of phatmass was over the pope's shoes. People only "prop" your pithy statements because you're like the Kim Jong-Il of phatmass. #justsayin Edited March 17, 2013 by Evangetholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 what? please tell me where in doctrine or dogma it says that the Pope must wear red shoes. or must wear the cape thing. seriously. are people getting upset because the Pope is deciding not to follow certain traditions that have just crept up over the hundreds of years? i am being serious here and not sarcastic. I wanted some time to pass before I responded to your post. This is a serious topic and as charitably and sensitively as the author proceeds there is already a lot of emotion errupting (not pointing at you necessarily.) We are bound to enter into territory that will make people uncomfortable, and for those with a low threshold for what they consider "offensive" a forum rule is bound to be judged broken. Sudenly a person is seen as schismatic or a 'Pope hater', even though they are merely raising sincere points for discussion because some Catholics do have valid concerns. So with that said, I understand your dismay. Who cares that the Pope no longer wears red shoes and does his liturgies without the same decorum? Seems so petty, especially since the leadership of the Church has done away with practices that are not centuries old, but thousands of years old, and they affect not one man but the Church as a whole. So I understand fully why some feel it petty, and it is increasingly more challenging to explain what a proper Catholic attitude is on such matters because historically Catholics did pay attention to details now considered superfluous. There is such a thing as ecclesiastical tradition, basically external disciplines that are not part of the Depost of Faith but related to it. Most of these practices originate from some Saint or inspiration of the Holy Ghost, but they are not in themselves infallible. Even so, Catholics held these things in reverance because they protected the Deposit of Faith and solidified our understanding of it. To use an analogy it would be like gaurding the Deposit in a Keep, and around the keep we built a wall, and around that wall we we built a mote. The ecclasiastical tradition serves as outer defenses so to speak by, protecting the Faith, acting as a medium for it to be passed on, and a source of Catholic identity. For reasons all too complex to be addressed here, ecclesiastical tradition and Tradition in general were underminded in the past few centuries, and culminating in a rupture circa the middle half of the 20th century. Anyone interested is welcome to read a detailed summary by Fr Chad Ripperger FSSP: http://www.latinmassmagazine.com/articles/articles_2001_SP_Ripperger.html Pope Benedict's "Hermentuic of Continuity" was aimed at rectifiying this. We have lost our Catholic identity, disciplines, and heritage and it is necessary to restore it. People think we're ok as long as the dogmas and doctrines are in tact need to take a hard look at our reality. Take carefully notice that when the Church's disciplines change people began to lose the faith. Fewer go to Church, most believe the Eucharist is just a symbol, and contraception is widely practices. It's not wise to say that we can maintain the doctrines but abandon the praxis. The praxis is vital, and hence St Augustine's famous maxim, the law of prayer is the law of belief. It's not merely our beliefs that affect our worship but our worship that affects how we believe! Make men and women dress properly in a mass that is solemn, command them to humble themselves by kneeling when receiging the Eucharist, and their thoughts about the Eucharist will change! I can assure you, they will be more likely to believe they are receiging the Lord of Hosts this way! So the point is, everything is important, doctrine and praxis. No division should be made between these as they are ultimately related to our Faith and should be equally preserved and defended. Our current Holy Father needs a lot of prayer, He is the one who is to lead us in these moments, and although I am a simple lay Catholic I have concerns over behaviors that reflect a certain attitude. This is not a criticism at our Pope, nor is it schism, nor is it heresy, it is merely that, the concern of a single lay Catholic, for a change in attitude towards the Liturgy is why we are in our current situation. Just my two cents, my appologies if I offended anyone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 That's a lot of words. I'm just going to say "your face", and be done with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Apologize for the spelling erros in the second paragraph, I attempted to edit but apparently the opportunity to do so locked out. Sorry dudes :disguise: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Apologize for the spelling erros in the second paragraph, I attempted to edit but apparently the opportunity to do so locked out. Sorry dudes :disguise: This endears me to you as much as your resemblance to the offspring of the illicit and implausible coupling of beloved fictional characters and my reluctance to read the entirety of your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dominicansoul Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 If we really want Pope Francis to embrace tradition, let him imitate Jesus Christ as much as possible... (can't get more traditional than that!) All these other matters shouldn't cost anyone to worry (especially those "he said this" stuff. I don't trust second hand accounts printed in the mass media...) Worrying never changed anything.. prayers on the other hand do :) He's already asked us to pray for him, and we should really put in some serious time to do so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 This endears me to you as much as your resemblance to the offspring of the illicit and implausible coupling of beloved fictional characters and my reluctance to read the entirety of your posts. Haha! Nicely put my friend, made me lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 If we really want Pope Francis to embrace tradition, let him imitate Jesus Christ as much as possible... Saturday Night Live did that, and the backlash was pretty bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 IWho cares that the Pope no longer wears red shoes and does his liturgies without the same decorum? Make men and women dress properly in a mass that is solemn, command them to humble themselves by kneeling when receiging the Eucharist, and their thoughts about the Eucharist will change! seriously, i was going to have a post here, but I'm drinking Guinness and making buttercream frosting to go with my Guinness chocolate cake, and I just finished making dinner (from scratch cream of broccoli soup), and I don't have the energy to engage your extremely long post. just fyi why i won't be responding. sorry dude. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 seriously, i was going to have a post here, but I'm drinking Guinness and making buttercream frosting to go with my Guinness chocolate cake, and I just finished making dinner (from scratch cream of broccoli soup), and I don't have the energy to engage your extremely long post. just fyi why i won't be responding. sorry dude. No worries, it'll probably be taken down in a few hours anyway. Cheers on the Guiness and broccoli soup, I'm sure those complement eachother nicely ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 This is the first time in like 35 years that we have a pope who is not a "known quantity." I think anxiety about it is natural. Popes have a lot of power and a life time appointment, so if people don't "know" a Pope very well they will worry over what he might do. I do not like surprises, and I am not alone in that! So I have to admit, I feel a little uneasy. But he will do alright; he is devoted to Our Lady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG45 Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Apparently. Look at the title of the thread. I think OP has issues. If by "issues" you mean a possibly misplaced sense of human reasonableness, perhaps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 If by "issues" you mean a possibly misplaced sense of human reasonableness, perhaps. My statement is intentionally vague. Please do not attempt to clarify. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 This is the first time in like 35 years that we have a pope who is not a "known quantity." I think anxiety about it is natural. Popes have a lot of power and a life time appointment, so if people don't "know" a Pope very well they will worry over what he might do. I do not like surprises, and I am not alone in that! So I have to admit, I feel a little uneasy. But he will do alright; he is devoted to Our Lady. I really don't think that's the issue. It's more that we know certain things that have occured in the past and we wonder whether they will be extrapolated into the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Papist Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I really don't think that's the issue. It's more that we know certain things that have occured in the past and we wonder whether they will be extrapolated into the future. Like Saint Augustine. His past dictated how he performed his duties as a bishop, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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