EmilyAnn Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Undoubtedly. I do not think you met JimR_OCDS though. My suggestion has nothing to do with other threads. If this one troubles you, such that you think the discussion itself is ridiculous, then I simply suggested that you need not trouble yourself with it. I think it has been a reasonable discussion thus far. It doesn't trouble me. I agree it has been reasonable. What I don't understand is why you seem so set on me leaving it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 true enough, Era, I personally view the mozzetta as being something more liturgical, it's a choir dress vestment I think, and I would've liked to have seen him wear it on the Balcony for the urbi et orbi even if he maybe chose to wear it in less situations later. even for some of the symbols that might not be directly liturgical, I think a liturgical metaphor would apply to the position of those symbols in the expression of the papacy. and I don't think the pope himself, as an individual, needs to be larger than life. I think the papacy needs to be. I definitely would like to see the Pope himself in close humble contact with his fellow bishops and with the people and all that, but the symbols themselves are meant to overshadow him, to be that iconographic painting that has been draped over him so we see this transcendent principle of unity of the papacy in the Pope's visible symbolic image even while he acts as a humble apostle of the Lord. I think it makes it all the more dramatic when the symbols are present upon a man exuding humility by his actions. and I think those things are witnesses to the Lord in ways, just like paintings and icons and statues are witnesses to our Lord. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Liturgical activities do not just happen during mass. All of life can be seen as an extension of the liturgy, and a Christian hierarch acts as a hierarch at all times. Being a bishop is not a 9 to 5 job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I admit that I am torn on the issue of papal traditions. I am a traditionalist, and so I do not like to see traditions broken in either the East or the West, but I can - as a person who wants to see the restoration of communion between the Catholic Churches (Roman and Eastern) and the Eastern Orthodox Churches - see the weakening of the signs of power around the pope as a good thing, because the Orthodox think the pope has too much power at the present time. So I am torn. I suppose I will have to wait and see what Pope Francis decides to do during his pontificate. don't Eastern Patriarchs still wear their crowns? :cyclops: granted, the tri-regnum of the papacy holds a different history so I'm not necessarily suggesting a return to that, but I would think that the symbols of the Pope would be expected to equal the symbols of the other patriarchs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 It doesn't trouble me. I agree it has been reasonable. What I don't understand is why you seem so set on me leaving it. You were quite obviously confounded (Or perhaps disgusted, even) at the subject of the shoes, so he recommended that if it bothered you that much you should not trouble yourself with it. It was a suggestion because he (From what I gather) found the conversation interesting or perhaps could be useful in some way, so there was no need to be rid of it just because one person didn't like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyAnn Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 You were quite obviously confounded (Or perhaps disgusted, even) at the subject of the shoes, so he recommended that if it bothered you that much you should not trouble yourself with it. It was a suggestion because he (From what I gather) found the conversation interesting or perhaps could be useful in some way, so there was no need to be rid of it just because one person didn't like it. Don't worry, I've got the message. I won't bother giving my opinion again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Don't worry, I've got the message. I won't bother giving my opinion again. :rolleyes: Isn't PM Drama Queen Jason's gig? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) don't Eastern Patriarchs still wear their crowns? :cyclops: granted, the tri-regnum of the papacy holds a different history so I'm not necessarily suggesting a return to that, but I would think that the symbols of the Pope would be expected to equal the symbols of the other patriarchs. Yes, they do. Of course, crowns are the miters of Eastern hierarchs. I will say this. Eastern Orthodox Christians are usually quite pleased when the pope does something that weakens his office (e.g., when he stops wearing garments that traditionally have signified his unique position), but they would not be happy to see their hierarchs (bishops, archbishops, metropolitans, or patriarchs) stop wearing the garments that signify their office. Perhaps that should give Roman Catholics a moment to pause and think. Edited March 17, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Don't worry, I've got the message. I won't bother giving my opinion again. I don't think having an opinion was the issue. They wanted to discuss it, you didn't. If you were in a circle of friends and everyone was talking about something you all thought was interesting, and then a friend walked into the circle and said "This conversation is stupid. Talk about something more important." would you all just stop, or would you ask your friend to leave if the conversation bothered them that much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangetholic Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) I like the Pope. He hasn't given me cause not to yet. And even when he does he'll still be the highest spiritual and temporal authority on the earth. So I'll still have to obey. Viva Papa Francisco! Vive Pape Francois! Viva Papa Francesco! Long live Pope Francis! :) At Mass today, we prayed for the Pope, with no mention of shoes. Edited March 17, 2013 by Evangetholic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 anyway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 I don't think the "carnival is over" statement is probably true. It came originally from Polish media and was picked up by the BBC... and I doubt that the BBC did any additional fact-checking. Obviously he was offered the mozetta and refused it. But Francis doesn't seem the type to be actively rude and insulting, not just to the Papal MC, but also to his predecessor, just before being going on the balcony to be presented to Rome and the world as the new pope. What is really irritating is Cardinal Mahoney... he of the letters helpfully warning pedophiles not to return to CA so as to escape the law. these are some of his recent tweets: So long, Papal ermine and fancy lace! Welcome, simple cassock, and hopefully, ordinary black shoes! St. Francis must be overjoyed!! At our meeting today with Pope Francis, I noted that is still wearing his older black shoes. I pray that he keeps them as a sign for us all Mass with Pope Francis: moving from HIGH Church to LOW and humble Church! What a blessing that we are encountering Jesus without trappings! More or less openly making odious comparisons to the former holy father... This man is a disgrace in every respect, and how is it that Archbishop Gomez's silencing of him doesn't apply to twitter and his blog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 (edited) I rather like him too... I had been hoping someone would take the name Leo XIV after the Pope of Rerum Novarum for these difficult economic times, but Francis was probably a better choice. Maggie, I agree, aside from some of the rash over reactions of some traditionalists out there predicting doom and gloom, the thing that has so far made me most sick was seeing Mahoney's tweets. Clear and open disrespect for Benedict, personally I don't think Pope Francis would approve of those tweets. Edited March 17, 2013 by Aloysius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 Mahony seems to be a sad and bitter fellow. Prayers for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeschoolmom Posted March 17, 2013 Share Posted March 17, 2013 :popcorn: I knew it. :| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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