KnightofChrist Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I'm giving my initial impressions. As I said at the start, this thread is a place to share hopes and fears. It isn't a declaration that from this point forward I will dislike everything Pope Francis does. Perhaps you should put that reminder in big bold read letters, at the beginning and end of all your posts that contain your concerns from here on out, so people aren't confused. :saint2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I don't think Noel is saying that she has made a final and irrevocable judgment on Pope Francis' pontificate. Heck, no one can do that until he either resigns or dies. She is just looking at his initial actions and expressing some concern. I think it is better that she do that with Catholic friends here at phatmass (and in her real world life) than just hold all the concerns inside unexpressed so that they can fester. i didn't say she is giving a final judgment. but to describe his papacy (already!) as one of "personality" (i'm still not sure what that even means), can mean that she will see everything in his papacy from that lens, instead of waiting and seeing what happens. it seems that she is allowing further judgments to be colored by that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 It's interesting to see that some people are doing with my posts what they have said I am doing to the Pope: picking out all the negatives. I've said positive things about him, too! Fr Z. has a new blog post that I am digesting now. I'm normally not a big fan of his, but this post is very interesting. Here's the link: http://wdtprs.com/blog/2013/03/i-am-thinking-about-those-red-shoes/ Thanks for posting the link. It's a good article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatholicCid Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 i didn't say she is giving a final judgment. but to describe his papacy (already!) as one of "personality" (i'm still not sure what that even means), can mean that she will see everything in his papacy from that lens, instead of waiting and seeing what happens. it seems that she is allowing further judgments to be colored by that. Perhaps NA could clarify it for you. It may be less nefarious then you seem to assume it is. :disguise: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franciscanheart Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 It could cause confusion, some could take it as the other Pope by holding the traditional practice weren't so humble.Many things can cause confusion among the ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) I didn't know much of him as archbishop, so it's difficult to say. I just think that there is too much of a contrast, too much of an emphasis on shunning certain things. I appreciate that he is not a clone of Benedict but so far what I've seen could be described as a 'papacy of personality'. Maybe he world needs him to be this way. I for one, am impressed by his style of speech and his ability to speak 'off-the-cuff'. I think it will endear people to him. I think people are putting a strong emphasis on Pope Francis "shunning" things and on his humility far more than he is. If it's a "papacy of personality" it's only because people are reading too much into his actions instead of letting him speak for himself. Edited March 18, 2013 by IcePrincessKRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 So then your issue is really with Franciscans? :hehe: It seems like a twisted sense of pride which would suspect false humility in another when in reality a great humility is being lived in the life of many Franciscans - professed and non-professed alike - throughout the world. I don't have an issue with Franciscans. Anyone or any group that chooses to emphasize humility will run the risk of false humility. The moment you think you finally have humility is the same moment you've lost it. It is a virtue that is difficult to rate in oneself let alone in other people. Maybe Pope Benedict wore fancy shoes/clothes/rings out of vanity. Or maybe he was being humble in submitting to tradition. Maybe Pope Francis eschews these things because he is humble - or maybe he's making a point that he has power to change things (watch out Curia, coming for you next!) or maybe he's just indulging his personal preferences. The Christian thing to do is to assume the best motives. But if you have many people in public loudly praising your humility, well there is where angels fear to tread. Teresa of Calcutta had to endure that as well. When people clapped for her she saw so many little devils giving her applause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) i didn't say she is giving a final judgment. but to describe his papacy (already!) as one of "personality" (i'm still not sure what that even means), can mean that she will see everything in his papacy from that lens, instead of waiting and seeing what happens. it seems that she is allowing further judgments to be colored by that. Sure it's an early judgment, but she is not making it in a vacuum. Pope Francis is already pope. But I do agree that time will reveal more about what he intends to do as bishop of Rome, and that my own judgment will be evolving over time, and I'm sure Noel's views will be in flux too, and also yours no doubt. Edited March 18, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Perhaps NA could clarify it for you. It may be less nefarious then you seem to assume it is. :disguise: thank you for the gentle reminder. :) Edited March 18, 2013 by Lil Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Many things can cause confusion among the ignorant. Being somewhat perplexed by your statement I will only add, we are all God's fools. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Sure it's an early judgment, but she is not making it in a vacuum. Pope Francis is already pope. But I do agree that time will reveal more about what he intends to do as bishop of Rome, and that my own judgment will be evolving over time, and I'm sure Noel's views will be in flux too, and also your's no doubt. i'm taking a "wait and see" approach. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I think people are putting way more emphasis on Pope Francis "shunning" things and on his humility far more than he is. If it's a "papacy of personality" it's only because people are reading too much into his actions instead of letting him speak for himself. YES! THIS! the problem being the Catholic & secular media seem to be pitting the "humility" of Pope Francis against the "grandeur" of Pope Benedict XVI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 The Christian thing to do is to assume the best motives. amen. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 YES! THIS! the problem being the Catholic & secular media seem to be pitting the "humility" of Pope Francis against the "grandeur" of Pope Benedict XVI. Exactly. When I saw people were surprised that he didn't take a gold pectoral cross and kept his old one I just thought "He didn't discard the cross altogether. Maybe his old one has sentimental value." If my husband gave me a new wedding band, or a new diamond ring I'd still want to keep and wear my old one, too. I think stepping into the role of Pope means accepting so much more weight and letting go of a lot that must have been held dear. I don't expect it to be an easy transition for anyone, least of all the Pope. If he chooses to keep a little simplicity about him among all the grandeur and import that his new role carries I have a hard time finding fault with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roamin Catholic Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I'm still too upset about Pope St Pius V changing the papal garb to white to be upset about anything Francis has or hasn't done yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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