Pope Francis!

[dominicansoul]

it just hit me that Pope Francis is the 5th Pope in my lifetime.

 

 

 

 

Man, I'm old :|

[MIKolbe]

hoping against hope, believed.

 

yes.  I needed to hear this.

 

thanks, red

[Apotheoun]

it just hit me that Pope Francis is the 5th Pope in my lifetime.

 

 

 

 

Man, I'm old :|

He is the sixth in my lifetime.

[Evangetholic]

3rd.

[PhuturePriest]

So as far as the ring goes, it said it was modeled after an Archbishop's ring...does that mean he flipped through a catalog until he found one he liked or likes that bishop or...? 

 

rotfl

 

I'd love to see that catalog. All of the Bishops in poses showing off their rings with information on them. "The Archbishop of Milan's ring is made of silver, and has that extra flair to dazzle everyone at the rectory."

[let_go_let_God]

Or as the Cardinals are swearing their allegiance, "May I see your ring?"

 

God bless-

LGLG

[Apotheoun]

rotfl

 

I'd love to see that catalog. All of the Bishops in poses showing off their rings with information on them. "The Archbishop of Milan's ring is made of silver, and has that extra flair to dazzle everyone at the rectory."

The only thing missing from your description is:  it can be yours if the price is right.

[Lilllabettt]

Excellent commentary from eminently qualified Franciscan religious JReducation at the Catholic Answers forums:
original thread here

p.s. when he refers to "regular popes" he means popes who are vowed religious.

"Secular" priests, bishops, and popes on the other hand are those who do not take vows e.g., "diocesan priests"  typically found leading a parish.

 

we have not had a regular pope in almost two centuries. Our experience of popes, since the late 18th century has been secular popes who do not have a vow of poverty and all of whom have been European.

This pope is a regular bishop, not a secular bishop and he's not European. Like most of those born in the colonies, he has European ancestry. In fact, he's first generation Argentinian.

Now, let's go back to the first Franciscan bishop, St. Bonaventure. Bonaventure was an absentee bishop who was named a cardinal and who hung the red hat on a tree branch and refused to wear it or the choir robes. He never wore anything other than the brother's grey habit. Later Franciscan popes also refused to wear the usual papal red. They wore the Franciscan habit or the white cassock.

The Dominican popes, Pope Benedict XI, Pope Benedict XIII, Pope Innocent V, and Pope Pius V wore the Dominican habit, not the red robes. Pope Pius V was such a holy and beloved pope that Pope Gregory XIII honored him by wearing a white cassock, hence the traditional white cassock worn by popes.

As you can see, there is a tradition that is part of the line of regular popes. We're not familiar with it, because none of us were alive during the pontificate of the last regular pope.

Not wearing the mozzetta or the pontifical stole is not a rejection of tradition. On the contrary, it's very consistent with the tradition of the regular popes.

What the Holy Father chooses to do, to wear, to speak, or not do, etc is all a mystery, because we have never had a Jesuit pope.

 

and referring to today's Installation Mass:

 

The chasubles that the cardinals were wearing were originally designed for Franciscans back in the 13th century. [...]
The cardinals today wore the classic Roman-Franciscan chasuble with the Tau on the chest. Granted, it's not a beautiful vestment as some of the more elaborate fiddle backs are. To be honest, this one was not beautiful at all. Personally, I didn't like the combination of colors. However, they got the design correct.[...]

It was also very striking that the servers were not only Franciscan brothers, but they did not wear cassocks. Instead, they wore the surplus over their habits and no shoes. Of course, these are the friars from Mt. LaVerna, where St. Francis received the stigmata. They don't wear shoes, even in winter.

There was also a strong Jesuit influence in the Holy Father's own vestments. They followed the simple and unpretentious Jesuit style. The Jesuits have always shunned any form of extravagance in vestments for mass. This is a tradition that goes back to the 1500s.

For those who are worried about tradition, there was a lot of tradition there. It was simply tradition that is not usually seen in secular circles. Since posts during that last 150+ years have been secular Catholics, we have not been exposed to this part of Catholic tradition. [...]

Obviously, he did not wear the mozzetta when he arrived, nor did he wear the gold cross that was made for him as is the case for every pope. He wears the silver cross of his episcopacy.

I heard the same thing that you did about the ring. That has a very reasonable explanation. Religious in solemn vows do not wear gold. Jesuits make solemn vows. He also changed the design of the ring. Someone explained what the new design is, but I can't recall right now.

It was also important to notice that he did not use the cathedra to preach. This is also a very Jesuit custom. Jesuit bishops (the few that there are) do not use the cathedra, because it's a royal symbol. St. Ignatius banned all forms of the regal from the Jesuit order.

Being a religious myself, I know how much it is drummed into our heads to avoid all of these things, to the point that they make us feel very uncomfortable. Think about it this way. It takes 10 years to become a solemnly professed male religious. That's the reason that there are so few communities in solemn vows. Most make simple vows. The formation is shorter. During the 10 years, the idea of simplicity and shunning anything that makes you look like a secular priest is drummed into you to the point that you have to push yourself, when you do have to accommodate. This may take some time for him or he may never do it. We'll just have to wait it out. The good part is that he is not being liturgically sloppy. He's just being a religious.

 

[Lil Red]

thank you, lilllabettt. :)

[PhuturePriest]

Excellent commentary from eminently qualified Franciscan religious JReducation at the Catholic Answers forums:
original thread here

p.s. when he refers to "regular popes" he means popes who are vowed religious.

"Secular" priests, bishops, and popes on the other hand are those who do not take vows e.g., "diocesan priests"  typically found leading a parish.

 

 

and referring to today's Installation Mass:

 

I love this man. I talk to him through messages sometimes, and he's so kind and considerate. He's also one of the smartest historians the Church has to offer, as you can clearly see with this.

[Myles Domini]

Interview with the then Cardinal Jorge Bergoglio

[Didacus]

it just hit me that Pope Francis is the 5th Pope in my lifetime.

 

 

 

 

Man, I'm old :|

 

 

Well, yes htat may be true, but pope Francis is the first pope in your lifetime who's an engineer!

 

So cheer up, you're not THAT old...!

[MIKolbe]

Didacorp is a hoax

[LouisvilleFan]

Am I the only person that doesn't like him?

 

He said this:  "One does not remain faithful, like the traditionalists or the fundamentalists, to the letter," and I don't like it.

 

I have a vision of him selling off the Sistine Chapel and building a soup kitchen with the money.

 

Here is the context of that quote courtesy of First Things:

 

"Staying, remaining faithful implies an outgoing. Precisely if one remains in the Lord one goes out of oneself. Paradoxically . . . precisely if one is faithful one changes. One does not remain faithful, like the traditionalists or the fundamentalists, to the letter. Fidelity is always a change, a blossoming, a growth. The Lord brings about a change in those who are faithful to him. That is Catholic. St. Vincent of Lerins makes the comparison between the biologic development or the person who grows and the Tradition which, in handing on the depositum fidei [deposit of faith] from one age to another, grows and consolidates with the passage of time: Ut annis scilicet consolidetur, dilatetur temporare, sublimetur aetate."

 

He isn't referring to all traditionally-minded Catholics. He is (as a pastor should) calling out the error to which traditionalism is prone. Beautiful words, and certainly if he were some Trad-hater he wouldn't integrate Latin into the same paragraph. Good pastors should challenge us and make us uncomfortable. His witness has made me think about priorities for sure.

[Apotheoun]

Here is the context of that quote courtesy of First Things:

 

"Staying, remaining faithful implies an outgoing. Precisely if one remains in the Lord one goes out of oneself. Paradoxically . . . precisely if one is faithful one changes. One does not remain faithful, like the traditionalists or the fundamentalists, to the letter. Fidelity is always a change, a blossoming, a growth. The Lord brings about a change in those who are faithful to him. That is Catholic. St. Vincent of Lerins makes the comparison between the biologic development or the person who grows and the Tradition which, in handing on the depositum fidei [deposit of faith] from one age to another, grows and consolidates with the passage of time: Ut annis scilicet consolidetur, dilatetur temporare, sublimetur aetate."

 

He isn't referring to all traditionally-minded Catholics. He is (as a pastor should) calling out the error to which traditionalism is prone. Beautiful words, and certainly if he were some Trad-hater he wouldn't integrate Latin into the same paragraph. Good pastors should challenge us and make us uncomfortable. His witness has made me think about priorities for sure.

That extended quotation was posted in this thread some time ago (see post #62).

 

:smile2: