A Gospel Struggle

[BarbTherese]

I struggled quite a bit for a while at first with today's Gospel  :

 

Holy Gospel of Jesus Christ according to Saint John 5:1-16.
There was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
Now there is in Jerusalem at the Sheep (Gate) a pool called in Hebrew Bethesda, with five porticoes.
In these lay a large number of ill, blind, lame, and crippled.
One man was there who had been ill for thirty-eight years.
When Jesus saw him lying there and knew that he had been ill for a long time, he said to him, "Do you want to be well?"
The sick man answered him, "Sir, I have no one to put me into the pool when the water is stirred up; while I am on my way, someone else gets down there before me."
Jesus said to him, "Rise, take up your mat, and walk."
Immediately the man became well, took up his mat, and walked. Now that day was a sabbath.
So the Jews said to the man who was cured, "It is the sabbath, and it is not lawful for you to carry your mat."
He answered them, "The man who made me well told me, 'Take up your mat and walk.'"
They asked him, "Who is the man who told you, 'Take it up and walk'?"
The man who was healed did not know who it was, for Jesus had slipped away, since there was a crowd there.
After this Jesus found him in the temple area and said to him, "Look, you are well; do not sin any more, so that nothing worse may happen to you."
The man went and told the Jews that Jesus was the one who had made him well.
Therefore, the Jews began to persecute Jesus because he did this on a sabbath.

 

 

Until I recalled Luke Ch13 "1] And there were present, at that very time, some that told him of the Galileans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. [2] And he answering, said to them: Think you that these Galileans were sinners above all the men of Galilee, because they suffered such things? [3] No, I say to you: but unless you shall do penance, you shall all likewise perish. [4] Or those eighteen upon whom the tower fell in Siloe, and slew them: think you, that they also were debtors above all the men that dwelt in Jerusalem? [5] No, I say to you; but except you do penance, you shall all likewise perish."

 

In John;'s Gospel for today at first it seemed to me that Jesus made a connection between sinfulness and illness contradicting what He says in Luke above.  However, in warning the cured man "do not sin any more, so that nothing worse may happen to you", I recalled that the suffering of Hell are worse than any bodily illness and that this is what Jesus is underscoring.  I even wondered if the suffering of Purgatory might be worse than any illness suffered on earth although the suffering of Purgatory is lessened with Joy (as there can be Spiritual Joy in illness) in knowing that Heaven is assured.  I guess I just have to wait (with much hope and prayer) to understand. :)  I then became aware that one can be morally assured of Heaven but not absolutely assured.Assurance of Salvation

 

Lord have Mercy "For behold I was conceived in iniquities; and in sins did my mother conceive me. "PSALM 50 (a great Psalm to read at any time and especially during Lent)

 

And of course, in telllng the man to take up his bed and walk on the Sabbath, he was breaking the Jewish Law re the Sabbath - indicating that Jesus is indeed "Lord of The Sabbath".  The discourse of Jesus following the curing of the man on the Sabbath (today's Gospel) would have inflamed His enemies even more (even outraged them totally) and they began to plot to kill Him.  There are 21 Chapters in the Gospel of John and in the 5th Chapter we are already reading that plotting to kill Jesus is taking place.

 

All insights absolutely welcome! :)

Edited March 12, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[LouisvilleFan]

My understanding is Jesus is confronting two different things in these passages. His warning in John that "nothing worse may happen to you" is in allusion to the greater suffering that falls upon those who come to believe in Christ, but then fall away. As you probably know, one of the conditions for mortal sin is having full knowledge. Most people who never believed in Christ are at least partially ignorant about the Gospel and therefore not fully culpable for their sins. However, those who believe and later reject Christ are sinning with full knowledge.

 

In Luke, Jesus is teaching against the long-held belief that people suffer because of something they specifically did wrong. It was common in biblical times for people to believe that curses like leprosy, other illnesses, untimely death, etc. were caused by God's judgment of sins they committed. This belief stems from the practice of other nations who made sacrifices in order to appease the gods and gain a fruitful marriage, a good harvest, long life, etc. We do the same thing today in our own way. It is true that specific sins do have specific consequences, i.e. abusing alcohol leads to increased risk for liver cancer. However, most of the bad stuff that happens is not our fault, and the bottom line is all of us among this fallen race are helpless without the Savior. Thus, Jesus called them to penance to make them humble and more open to God.

 

Hope that is helpful. Backing up to the high level view, it's worth noting these Gospels come from different apostles with different backgrounds, emphases, and goals in writing their accounts.

[T-fish]

I struggled quite a bit for a while at first with today's Gospel  :

 

 

 

Until I recalled Luke Ch13 "1] And there were present, at that very time, some that told him of the Galileans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. [2] And he answering, said to them: Think you that these Galileans were sinners above all the men of Galilee, because they suffered such things? [3] No, I say to you: but unless you shall do penance, you shall all likewise perish. [4] Or those eighteen upon whom the tower fell in Siloe, and slew them: think you, that they also were debtors above all the men that dwelt in Jerusalem? [5] No, I say to you; but except you do penance, you shall all likewise perish."

 

In John;'s Gospel for today at first it seemed to me that Jesus made a connection between sinfulness and illness contradicting what He says in Luke above.  However, in warning the cured man "do not sin any more, so that nothing worse may happen to you", I recalled that the suffering of Hell are worse than any bodily illness and that this is what Jesus is underscoring.  I even wondered if the suffering of Purgatory might be worse than any illness suffered on earth although the suffering of Purgatory is lessened with Joy (as there can be Spiritual Joy in illness) in knowing that Heaven is assured.  I guess I just have to wait (with much hope and prayer) to understand. :)  I then became aware that one can be morally assured of Heaven but not absolutely assured.Assurance of Salvation

 

Lord have Mercy "For behold I was conceived in iniquities; and in sins did my mother conceive me. "PSALM 50 (a great Psalm to read at any time and especially during Lent)

 

And of course, in telllng the man to take up his bed and walk on the Sabbath, he was breaking the Jewish Law re the Sabbath - indicating that Jesus is indeed "Lord of The Sabbath".  The discourse of Jesus following the curing of the man on the Sabbath (today's Gospel) would have inflamed His enemies even more (even outraged them totally) and they began to plot to kill Him.  There are 21 Chapters in the Gospel of John and in the 5th Chapter we are already reading that plotting to kill Jesus is taking place.

 

All insights absolutely welcome! :)

Jesus wouldn't underscore anything. We were not told of Purgatory until the Church. The Hebs have a place called Sheol.

And Jesus wasn't the only one disobeying the Sabbath, He told the man to pick up his mat and walk which was a no-no too. But Jesus is Lord, so He can tell people what and what not to do therefore no sin is committed there.

You use the old text. Psalm 50 is now 51.

 

Maybe you could do some Lectio on these passages.

Buona Fortuna!

[BarbTherese]

Jesus wouldn't underscore anything. We were not told of Purgatory until the Church. The Hebs have a place called Sheol.

And Jesus wasn't the only one disobeying the Sabbath, He told the man to pick up his mat and walk which was a no-no too. But Jesus is Lord, so He can tell people what and what not to do therefore no sin is committed there.

You use the old text. Psalm 50 is now 51.

 

Maybe you could do some Lectio on these passages.

Buona Fortuna!

 

 

Thank you for the comments.  I certainly never meant that Jesus committed any sort of sin - apologies if it read that way.  Rather I was questioning my own initial confusion and what seemed only to me to be a contradiction, until I prayerfully meditated a little more and then all clicked into place.

 

I most always use the Douay Rheims Catholic translation HERE of the Latin Vulgate in which the quotation is in Psalm 50.   No drama! :)  

 

Thank you for the hint on Lectio - it was during Lectio that I had my confusion and then light on The Gospel :)

 

May The Lord's Providence bless you also