Suffering Is Perfect...

[Jake Huether]

Jesus' life is our perfect road map. And so it got me thinking: why all the suffering??

Well, there is a pretty short and sweet explanation. You see: Satisfaction never is satisfactory. Perfection is never perfect. And happiness is never happy. If you can think of the best day of your life, you can ALWAYS think of a way to make it even better. There is always something better. And so we are never satisfied with "perfect" because it doesn't exist.

But, when we suffer, we can rejoice in the fact that it could always be worse. When we suffer, we know that someone is suffering more. There is not one instance in my life where I've suffered that I can't think of how it could be worse.

So what Christ was showing us, through His example, is that perfection can only be achieved in suffering. It is when we suffer that we know that we are on top. Suffering isn't sad in the spirit (it is indeed, in the flesh). Suffering is perfect! Because there are an infinity of ways in which it could be worse. And if there is an infinity of ways it could be worse, then you are infinitely far away from sadness and misery. But in happiness and material perfection there are an infinity of ways in which it could be better, and so you see that you are infinitely far away from being perfect.

Pretty neat, eh?

Praise the Lord always, but praise Him most when you suffer!

[Guest JeffCR07]

Hmm, its definately a neat idea, but some of the stuff in there makes me wonder what the Church would have to say about it. To the best of my knowledge, Perfection (God) IS Perfect, and, in fact, can never be otherwise. Moreover, suffering makes sense only insofar as we sin. Think about it, only as a consequence of original sin did childbirth hurt or was tilling a field tiring. It seems that suffering is SO important, and SO good because by offering our suffering up to God, we can work to bridge the gap caused by concupisense (the tendency towards sin). However, no amount of suffering could make up for what Adam did, and so God suffered FOR US in Christ. Only then can the bridge be gapped and can we become reunited with Christ. With Christ's victory as our salvation, we can now offer up our smaller sufferings [i]in imitation of Him[/i]. I'm not sure that you're correct in your statements:

"Perfection is never perfect. And happiness is never happy. If you can think of the best day of your life, you can ALWAYS think of a way to make it even better. There is always something better. And so we are never satisfied with "perfect" because it doesn't exist."

Perfection (God) IS Perfect. And happiness (union with God) is Perfect Happiness. It isn't that "perfect" doesn't exist, because it does - and not just in Heaven. The Holy Spirit is here on earth with us, and is Perfect. The mass is a Perfect sacrifice and offering to God, because it IS the sacrifice of Christ.


I'm really not trying to shoot you down, or seem like an intellectual jerk. I'm not very good at converying my thoughts in an emotional way, and, as such, I want to apologize ahead of time if you think this is not written charitably. It really is. All I'm trying to say is that being a Contemplative is very good, and can reap huge benefits, but we should always step back a moment and make sure that our musing lead us in the direction of Church Teaching. If they don't, we should check to find out why.

- Your Brother in Christ, Jeff

[Carnanc]

suffering is amazing when it is offered up in the spirit of reperation for our sin, or for the conversion of others arround us. Here is a wonderful writing on suffering my St. John Vianney which does a good job explaining how to "love while we suffer and suffer while we love"

[url="http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/stj18020.htm"]http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/stj18020.htm[/url]

suffering is a way to unite ourselves to the crucified one on the cross, and it is as St. Paul says a way to grow in hope, and therefore charity. I have read and believe that a great joy comes from accepting suffering and offering it all to the Lord.

[Apotheoun]

Although I don't endorse everything in the post on suffering, I do agree that the suffering of Christ continues in His mystical Body the Church, and in each individual member, in fact I wrote a paper that touched on this topic at Franciscan University. It is not so much that we suffer alone, but that Christ continues to suffer in us. In other words, He suffers in all those who have been incorporated into His mystical Body. As St. Augustine pointed out in one of his commentaries on the Psalms, "What does the scripture mean when it tells us of the body of one man so extended in space that all can kill him? We must understand these words of ourselves, of our Church, of the Body of Christ. For Jesus Christ is one man, having a Head and a Body. . . . And so the passion of Christ is not in Christ alone; and yet the passion of Christ is in Christ alone. For if in Christ you consider both the Head and the Body, then Christ's passion is in Christ alone, but if by Christ you mean only the Head, then Christ's passion is not in Christ alone. For if the sufferings of Christ are in Christ alone, that is in the Head alone; why does a certain member of Him, Paul the Apostle, say, 'In my flesh I complete what is lacking in Christ's afflictions?' Hence if you are in the members of Christ, . . . whatever you suffer at the hands of those who are not members of Christ, was lacking to the sufferings of Christ. It is added precisely because it was lacking. You fill up the measure, you do not cause it to overflow. [i]You will suffer just so much as must be added of your sufferings to the complete passion of Christ, who suffered as our Head and who continues still to suffer in His members, that is, in us[/i]." [Mersch, [u]The Whole Christ[/u], pages 424-425; taken from St. Augustine's, [u]Enarrationes in Psalmos[/u], Commentary on Psalm 62] Clearly, Christ and the Church form one mystical Man, and so anything that happens to His Body, to each individual member, happens to Him. I would add that St. Paul tells us in Romans 8:14-17, that ". . . all who are led by the Spirit of God are the sons of God. For you did not receive the spirit of slavery to fall back into fear, but you have received the Spirit of sonship. When we cry, 'Abba! Father!' It is the Spirit Himself bearing witness with our spirit that we are children of God, and if children, then heirs, and fellow heirs with Christ, [i]provided we suffer with Him in order that we may be glorified with Him[/i]." Jesus is the Messianic Suffering Servant, and the Church is the perpetual extension of this reality through time. If we are to be glorified with Him, we must participate in His passion.

[crusader1234]

I'm no expert apologist and to be quite honest I didnt read all the follow up posts, but I think anybody who wants to learn about what it means to Suffer to get closer to Jesus should read about St. Rafka.

[Jake Huether]

Hey thank you all for your responses. Indeed, they were very charitably presented. And I've learned a whole lot more in reading them.

Thank you again. And may the Peace of Christ fill your hearts!

[Soldier4Him]

WOW! I am so glad I found this post. This has been so applicable to my life lately, and I've learned a lot about it through a lot of people the past 3 weeks or so. Suffering, is INCREDIBLE. We are meant to suffer in the Christian life, Christ said so! And it's all over the Bible. 1Peter 1:6 & 7 "In this you rejoice, although now for a little while you may have to suffer through various trials, so that the genuiness of your faith, more precious than gold that is perishable even though tested by fire, may prove to be for praise, glory, and honor at the revalation of Jesus Christ." 1 Peter 3:17 "For it is better to suffer for doing good, if that be the will of God, than for doing evil."

And here's the big one: 1 Peter 4:12 & 13 "Beloved, do not be surprised that a trial by fire is occuring among you, as if something strange were happening to you. BUT REJOICE TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU SHARE IN THE SUFFERINGS OF CHRIST, SO THAT WHEN HIS GLORY IS REVEALED YOU MAY ALSO REJOICE EXULTANTLY." and verse 19... "As a result, those who suffer in accord with God's will hand their souls over to a faithful creator as they do good."

James 1:2 "Consider it all joy my brothers, when you face various trials."

And again in Sirach 2:1 "My son, WHEN YOU COME TO SERVE THE LORD, PREPARE YOURSELF FOR TRIALS."

If we feel completely content in life, we're doing something wrong! Suffering allows us to grow closer to Christ! And when we suffer, think of all the people we can offer it for! All the souls in purgatory, the unborn babies of the world, PRIESTS!, even people we're close to. Even when our trial is over, the act of offering our suffering up is still radiating through Heaven! Our lives weren't meant to be a bed of roses. Now I'm not saying God doesn't want us to be happy, and have fun, I'm saying that we will suffer in this life. No matter what. And we can chose to be angry about that, and depressed, and sad etc, OR we can OFFER IT UP FOR THE GLORY OF GOD. The choice is ours.

"Whoever is made to suffer as a Christian should not be ashamed but glorify God because of the name." 1 Peter 4:16

Edited June 10, 2004 by Soldier4Him

[Guest JeffCR07]

Yet again, this is what I love so much about the Magisterium and all the Church: there is SO much to learn, and no topic could ever be exhausted. I hadn't realized all the scriptural references to suffering!

- Your Brother in Christ, Jeff

[phatcatholic]

of particular interest to me are Paul's words when he speaks of "completing what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ."

could someone expound upon this? what does this verse mean? what are we to learn from it?

thanks,
phatcatholic

[Soldier4Him]

Jeff--amazing isn't it???

[Jake Huether]

[quote name='phatcatholic' date='Jun 10 2004, 02:59 PM'] of particular interest to me are Paul's words when he speaks of "completing what is lacking in the sufferings of Christ."

could someone expound upon this? what does this verse mean? what are we to learn from it?

thanks,
phatcatholic [/quote]
Although there exists the Historic, REAL, and Physical Christ Jesus, there also exists the Person of Christ in His Mystical Body. And although the Real (for lack of a better word) Jesus Christ suffered a Perfect death and made the Perfect Sacrifice for us all, His Mystical Body has not done so yet.

I supose one could look at it like this:

The world isn't over. And until it is over, sin exists. And since sin exists, the suffering of Christ continues. The suffering of Christ mystically. Christ already suffered for our sins physically and historically. There is no more suffering that Christ needs to complete due to our sins - because according to History, our sins no longer exist. That is in God's time (which is eternity - neither then, now, or in the future). But our sins continue in our time, and so God's suffering in our time is not complete. Now, we have a Mystical avenue to the historic completion of Christs suffering during the Mass. The Mass takes us from our excile and transplants us, in God's time, to the foot of the Cross in historic time. This is the antidote to Christ's unfinished Mystical suffering. As long as sin exists, Christs Passion, in His Mystical Body, is lived. And as long as sin exists, there will be the Mass, which consumates the Sacrifice and ends our suffering Mystically. And we learn, through the Historic Christ, how the Mystical Christ must respond. Christ asked, "If it is possible, let this cup pass. But not My Will, but Yours be done." And so, the Mystical Christ must respond to suffering, "your will be done". Because in our suffering, the Mystical Body of Christ, our own redemption is being completed - in our time, even though it has already been competed in God's time. Jesus, being the Head of the Mystical Body, has Began the Mystical Salvific Work. We, being the Body of Christ Mystically, must compete what Christ has done.

The Mystical Body of Christ, and our suffering, is a response to the disconnect between eternity in God's time, and the finite "our time".

I think I understand it better in my head, than what I am jotting down. But if it makes sense, Glory to God!

Maybe others can post better what I've so terribly tried to represent.

God bless.

Edited June 11, 2004 by Jake Huether

[phatcatholic]

hehe, yea, i may need to read over that a couple times!!

i have heard it explained like this:

christ's suffered for ALL sins on the cross, and his saving work was perfect in that it is potentially efficacious for all mankind (hehe, here's where ICTHUS comes in ). however, as the mystical body of Christ, it is our responsibility to appropriate this saving work to God's people. so, essentially, Christ's sufferings are complete in their perfect power and glory, but not complete in their application on to the souls for whom it was for. so, its our job--the Church's job--to ensure that all men benefit from the sufferings of Christ on the cross.

this of course is done thru spreaking the gospel, partaking of the sacraments, and living/witnessing to lives of charity. however, another more mystical way in which Christ's sufferings are appropriated by the Body is through our own suffering. whenever we fast so that the lost may receive Christ, or when we remain in chastity and purity so that someone somewhere may be able to overcome that temptation, our suffering--united w/ Christs--works to save souls.

The Real body of Christ united w/ the Mystical Body of Christ, suffering together to save mankind.

what is furthermore important is that this belief does not imply that Christ could not do it on his own. he has the power to do all things. however, he has willed that we participate in his suffering, and that we make up for what is lacking by ensuring that the perfect work he has achieved is appropriated to mankind.

PRAISE BE TO GOD! HALLELUIAH!

woh, i just got all riled up. does that make sense? am i correct?

holla back,
phatcatholic

[Apotheoun]

[quote]Christ's suffered for ALL sins on the cross, and his saving work was perfect in that it is potentially efficacious for all mankind (hehe, here's where ICTHUS comes in ). however, as the mystical body of Christ, it is our responsibility to appropriate this saving work to God's people. so, essentially, Christ's sufferings are complete in their perfect power and glory, but not complete in their application on to the souls for whom it was for. so, its our job--the Church's job--to ensure that all men benefit from the sufferings of Christ on the cross.[/quote]


This is an acceptable way of speaking about this mystery. When you understand that the Church is the perpetual extension of the incarnation through time, then you understand that Christ's sufferings are complete in the Head, but that His passion continues in His Body the Church. St. Augustine spoke of this mystery in his commentary on Psalm 140/141 when he said that, ". . . it is written in the Gospel: [i]Jesus prayed with earnest prayer, and sweated blood[/i]. What is this blood streaming from His whole Body but the martyrdom of the whole Church." [cf., [u]The Liturgy of the Hours: The Office of Readings[/u], the patristical reading for Tuesday of the Second Week of Lent, taken from St. Augustine's [u]Enarrationes in Psalmos[/u], Commentary on Psalm 140/141] For you see, when a man is baptized he is incorporated into Christ in such a way that he can say with St. Paul, that "It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me." [Galatians 2:20] Christ and His Church are one Man, one mystical person stretching throughout time until the Parousia, and thus everything that happens to the Church, happens to Christ. This is the whole point of the incarnation.

In reference to the use of the term [i]real[/i] in connection with Christ's physical body, as opposed to His mystical Body the Church, I need to point out that restricting the term in this way is improper. The term [i]real[/i] cannot be exclusively used of Christ's physical Body, because it also applies to His mystical Body the Church, and to His Eucharistic Body as well. All three are [i]real[/i], they simply exist in different ways or modes of being.

[Guest JeffCR07]

that makes a lot of sends, and sounds pretty much exactly like what I know of Magisterial teaching on the subject of the incarnation/continuation of Christ on earth via the Church. Just a question: You've had a bunch of great posts Apotheoun, where are you from/ what do you do?

[Apotheoun]

[quote]That makes a lot of sense, and sounds pretty much exactly like what I know of Magisterial teaching on the subject of the incarnation/continuation of Christ on earth via the Church. Just a question: You've had a bunch of great posts Apotheoun, where are you from/ what do you do?[/quote]


Thank you for the kind compliment regarding my posts. In answer to your question, I'm originally from the San Francisco Bay Area, and I'm present in California for my summer vacation. As for the second part of the question, I'm a Byzantine Catholic working on my Masters in Theology at Franciscan University in Ohio.