Genesis And Evolution

[Fidei Defensor]

As far as I'm concerned, this is how I view it:  evolution through the mechanisms of natural selection is a fact.  It is just how it happened.  God obviously played a part, being the creator and all. But it isn't important to know what his role was, only that he had one. Only God knows how it happened.  We should just be satisfied in knowing the scientific part because it is within our ability to know.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

Benedict XVI/Cardinal Ratzinger wrote a must-read titled In the Beginning: A Catholic Understanding of the Story of the Creation and the Fall. The creation accounts have much more to offer us as theology/moral history than science/natural history. See also John Paul II's theology of the body catecheses.

 

As I understand it, the Church requires an acceptance of "theological monogeny," that is, at some point in history a single human couple (the biblical Adam and Eve) were granted a spiritual relationship with our Creator, and all subsequent humanity is biologically descended from them. This is outside the realm of possible scientific certainty, so any biological theory of human physiological origins seems to be compatible with Catholicism. I foresee concerns about "randomness" from those sympathetic to more "guided" accounts of human evolution, but we can discuss those as they come up.

 

Note I said any biological account of human origins is compatible with Catholicism, which does not include the separate metaphysical opinions of those who endorse them.

[Guest]

So what then becomes the "sin "that leads to the fall ? Or is it at all possible God created us in a fallen nature to begin with and all of us in this life are here to learn and live a life of love so we can one day be with with God for eternity thanks to what God did for us on the cross.

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

So what then becomes the "sin "that leads to the fall ? Or is it at all possible God created us in a fallen nature to begin with and all of us in this life are here to learn and live a life of love so we can one day be with with God for eternity thanks to what God did for us on the cross.

I think a Catholic who believes an evolutionary account would say that this first set of parents were offered a special spiritual relationship with God, grace. The story of the Fall is still intact - they immediately broke this relationship (sin) and suffered the consequences, as we learn in Genesis. The account of the history of sin is external to the biological question of origins here.

[cmotherofpirl]

Tangentially related, there is the mitochondrial Eve, the most recent common ancestor of all living humans.

 http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/03/130305145821.htm

[Evangetholic]

We should be careful with mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam. These ancestors are not in all likelihood the Biblical Adam and Eve. They lived at different times. (Our ultimate traceable male line ancestor and female line ancestress)

[mortify]

We should be careful with mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam. These ancestors are not in all likelihood the Biblical Adam and Eve. They lived at different times. (Our ultimate traceable male line ancestor and female line ancestress)

 

Y-chomosomal Adam should be called Noah rather than Adam

[Evangetholic]

Y-chomosomal Adam should be called Noah rather than Adam

 

This is true. I'd never considered this. But it would actually explain the greater diversity in mitochondrial DNA than Y-chromosomes.

[CatholicCid]

Pope Emeritus, Benedict XVI, has spoken on the topic of faith and evolution several times. 

 

Currently, I see in Germany, but also in the United States, a somewhat fierce debate raging between so-called "creationism" and evolutionism, presented as though they were mutually exclusive alternatives: those who believe in the Creator would not be able to conceive of evolution, and those who instead support evolution would have to exclude God. This antithesis is absurd because, on the one hand, there are so many scientific proofs in favour of evolution which appears to be a reality we can see and which enriches our knowledge of life and being as such. But on the other, the doctrine of evolution does not answer every query, especially the great philosophical question: where does everything come from? And how did everything start which ultimately led to man? I believe this is of the utmost importance.

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/speeches/2007/july/documents/hf_ben-xvi_spe_20070724_clero-cadore_en.html

 

You're thought, HCF, seems to fit within Church understanding/teaching. Many theologians fall within the Intelligent Design theory, which is not to be confused with "creationism" (No evolution, earth is 6,000 years old). The ID theory is simply that there is evolution, but God remains the driving and directing force. 

 

 

Interestingly enough, Benedict actually spoke at a conference on this topic. It has been made into a book entitled "Creation and Evolution: A Conference with Pope Benedict XVI in Castel Gandolfo."

 

Edited March 10, 2013 by CatholicCid

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitochondrial_Eve#Common_misconceptions

[EcceNovaFacioOmni]

It should be noted that any literal interpretation of Genesis has to deal with chapter 4. Cain complains about being a wanderer in danger of being killed, and also becomes the founder of a city. Could Adam and Eve have populated the earth in one generation? When we get into it, Genesis 2-3 tells us less about the details than I think is often presumed. There could have been other people contributing to our lineage genetically, but with the previous mentioned "theological Adam and Eve" as our common ancestral couple (hence the descent of original sin).

 

It seems like trying to date the Fall is a futile exercise, as we would have multiple common ancestral points in our genealogy. It's safe to say that by Abraham's time at the latest, everyone on the earth had inherited original sin. That's the important thing here, and trying to determine anything more is a wild goose chase.

 

And in the spirit of St. Thomas, I'm open to correction here ;-)

[Evangetholic]

I think you're right.

[mortify]

It should be noted that any literal interpretation of Genesis has to deal with chapter 4. Cain complains about being a wanderer in danger of being killed, and also becomes the founder of a city. Could Adam and Eve have populated the earth in one generation? When we get into it, Genesis 2-3 tells us less about the details than I think is often presumed. There could have been other people contributing to our lineage genetically, but with the previous mentioned "theological Adam and Eve" as our common ancestral couple (hence the descent of original sin).

 

It seems like trying to date the Fall is a futile exercise, as we would have multiple common ancestral points in our genealogy. It's safe to say that by Abraham's time at the latest, everyone on the earth had inherited original sin. That's the important thing here, and trying to determine anything more is a wild goose chase.

 

And in the spirit of St. Thomas, I'm open to correction here ;-)

 

The further back we go the murkier it gets but if we lean towards a literal reading of Genesis, Adam and Eve are perhaps some 300,000 years from our time and Noah some 50,000 years

[Guest]

We should be careful with mitochondrial Eve and Y-chromosomal Adam. These ancestors are not in all likelihood the Biblical Adam and Eve. They lived at different times. (Our ultimate traceable male line ancestor and female line ancestress)

Interesting...What exactly do you mean ? Not attacking I think I may agree...Are you taliking perhaps different earth ages ? Can everything become almost like the old show the twilight zone ? Can things happen that haven't happened? And perhaps things that haven't happened actually happen ? The Lamb was slain before the foundation of this world...What does that actually mean ? Not trying to get real weird here but at the same time it seems as if things could be deeper then we comprehend..............Yes I'm drinking....I love you all.... Edited March 10, 2013 by Guest

[Nihil Obstat]

Interesting...What exactly do you mean ? Not attacking I think I may agree...Are you taliking perhaps different earth ages ? Can everything become almost like the old show the twilight zone ? Can things happen that haven't happened? And perhaps things that haven't happened actually happen ? The Lamb was slain before the foundation of this world...What does that actually mean ? Not trying to get real weird here but at the same time it seems as if things could be deeper then we comprehend..............Yes I'm drinking....I love you all....

Way simpler than that, dude.

Genetically speaking, there is one man from whom every person currently on earth descended, and there is one woman from whom every person on earth descended. But those two people did not live in the same time period. I think they were separated by something like 200 000 years, or close to it. It means that the human population went through a bottleneck at those two particular points.