Guest Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 As a Catholic am I required to believe this? Could this be a parable ? Such as those used in the old testement to conveigh a higher truth ? I find this story hard to believe since no writers outside of the gospel at the time mentioned any thing of this. 5000 is a lot of people. You would think if this were true writers such as Josephus or Philo Judaes would have mentioned it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmilyAnn Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 My completely uneducated opinion.... Parables are generally pretty clearly marked as being parables...so no I don't think it's a parable. It was a true event, and a true miracle. I'd find it pretty much impossible to justify not believing in it as an acceptable Catholic position. Do we only believe in the events of the Bible when they are found in other sources? Of course not. We know and believe that it is the true, inspired word of God. We don't need other sources to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) Ok but if something like this happened it would of been talked about and recorded in history....Again 5000 people is a lot of people...The only way I could see it not being talked about is if the crowd didn't know Jesus multipled it...And even then being this controversial figure to start with and having enough food to feed 5000 people would be a big deal...Even if the crowd DIDN'T know you multipled it from 2 fish and 5 loaves...But from what I understand the crowd were aware of the Divine Miracle... Edited March 8, 2013 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) And of course what I'm getting at is I think we really need to be told the truth...Kids need to know the truth growing up what the Bible is supposed to mean...And I'm not here to say what it is supposed to mean...All I'm saying is in the internet age the Bible in the wrong contex can turn someone to an atheist real quick...It is going to be a huge challenge for the Church in these years ahead...And I'm not here to say what is true and what is a myth...Although I know people want honesty and don't to wake up one day and say wow I've been being lied to and brainwashed...I'm not saying that is what's going on...God did give us logic and reason though and I don't believe were just supposed to accept everything because that's just the way it is... Edited March 8, 2013 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Ok but if something like this happened it would of been talked about and recorded in history....Again 5000 people is a lot of people...The only way I could see it not being talked about is if the crowd didn't know Jesus multipled it...And even then being this controversial figure to start with and having enough food to feed 5000 people would be a big deal...Even if the crowd DIDN'T know you multipled it from 2 fish and 5 loaves...But from what I understand the crowd were aware of the Divine Miracle... Yes, the miracle of the multiplication of the loaves and fishes was a real miracle performed by Christ. As Christians, we believe that Christ was divine, and worked many miracles, including His Resurrection from the dead - we don't believe that Jesus was just a nice guy who had some nice teachings about how to be nice. It is for this reason that countless people were willing to give up their lives rather than deny their belief in Christ. Yes, multiplying the food to feed 5000 was a big deal, and was talked about, and was recorded in history - in the Gospels. It was through witnessing miracles such as this that many came to believe in and follow Christ. You have no basis for claiming this event was not talked about. Josephus does mention the miracles of Christ, though he does not list them all individually. If you'll note in the Gospels, Christ's miracles were not denied by His detractors, but some of the Pharisees claimed that He worked his miracles by the power of the devil, rather than God. And before He fully revealed His divinity, many regarded Jesus as a prophet, rather than as the actual Son of God. Of course, you can deny the truth of what was written in the Gospels, as do atheists, or take the heretical modernist approach of trying to explain away all the miraculous occurrences in Scripture as myths or parables, rather than real historical events. But once you start denying the historical reality of some of Christ's miracles, where do you stop? The Christian Faith is based on miraculous events which cannot be denied without one ceasing to be Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangetholic Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 "But if I do it, even though you do not believe me, believe the miracles, that you may know and understand that the Father is in me, and I in the Father." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangetholic Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 If Our Lord's miracles are not factually accurate then the early growth of Christianity--with no armies and the enmity of the entire religious establishment (Talmudic and Pagan)--makes no rational sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archaeology cat Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 It is recorded in history - the Gospels are history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 As a Catholic am I required to believe this? Could this be a parable ? Such as those used in the old testement to conveigh a higher truth ? I find this story hard to believe since no writers outside of the gospel at the time mentioned any thing of this. 5000 is a lot of people. You would think if this were true writers such as Josephus or Philo Judaes would have mentioned it. I think you overestimate the scope of writings two millenia ago. Josephus and Philo would have had little to no interest in Jesus of Nazareth. There are Roman and Jewish reports of Jesus being a miracle worker of sorts but again there are no specifics, it was not in the interests of these writers to delve further. Only the New Testament gives us what might be called a detailed look into the life of Jesus, so it's not at all unsurprising that we don't find this mentioned in the surviving documents. I emphasize "surviving" because not many reports survive from that time, I mean think about it, few pages survive a couple decades let alone a millenia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Socrates Josephus words were altered...That's if he wrote about Jesus at all...That's a known fact...Josephus and Philo wrote about what was going on at the time...If a mircale like this happened it would of got around...Why wouldn't it be included in their writings? That's a big deal. Just like its a big deal when Jesus comes back to life and brings saints with Him and thousands of people are said to see them. Why wouldn't that be recorded in these mens writing ? I'm at a point where I'm confused. A lot of the stuff in the old testement turns out not to be true right ? Such as Jonas in a whale etc etc. So is it a far stretch to think some of these stories about Christ might not be what really happened ? There has to be a logical reason Jesus seems not to be recorded in history outside of the gospel. If all these miracles occured it almost seems He would have to be wrote about outside of the gospels. I still identify as a catholic christian and I believe Christ was raised from the dead. Although I also wonder if things were done on a much smaller scale then how the Gospels present them to have happened. Edited March 9, 2013 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 It is recorded in history - the Gospels are history. So everything in the Bible is fact and to be taken literal ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 As a Catholic in good standing what is expected of me to believe about the Bible ? Do I have to believe its all true and literal ? Not being a smart ass just honestly wondering ? Godbless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kateri89 Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 The Bible doesn't give any specifics about the fish if I remember correctly. For all we know it could've been one like this: Although if that were the case, the distribution to the 5,000 wouldn't have been as miraculous... :sailing: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 That's a big fish. haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Me not believing the stories literaly in the old testement, does that put me outside of the Church ? Or that I don't take the stories and verses that present God in a hateful way in the old testetment literaly, put me outside of the Church ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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