Evangetholic Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 I understand that marriage at its core does not necessarily have to involve "passion," but it's not the 13th Century--our marriages are no longer reproductive arrangements that we bear and I believe that that is what marriage would turn into for me. It's not a question of whether or not I could make a spiritually successful marriage that resulted in me and the other party going to heaven, but whether not there's any woman on earth whose best experience of being loved in marriage would be by me. This isn't based on a misunderstanding of marriage, but based on both understanding it and human psychology sufficiently to know that any marriage involving me would become a place of suffering and sacrifice for both partners. And yes, suffering and sacrifice are holy; but it doesn't seem to me that "heroic suffering" is exactly what's envisioned by "helpmeet." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I'm at something of a similar crossroads in that I don't know what I'm doing with myself. I'm having difficulty seeing how my current single life could become a form of service (especially since I feel comfortable with it more because I am a lone wolf kind of guy than anything else). I don't want to deny the possibility of religious or married life on account of them being too hard, but realistically speaking getting from A to B in either of those cases seems like a bit of a stretch at this point in time. I relate to this very much. I am 33 and both consecrated life and marriage look unlikely for me at this point. At the same time, I feel that taking a vow of consecrated virginity without a clear sign from God that that is His will would be closing the door on one of the other vocations. I'm a new convert, and I do feel drawn to religious life, but the order I am discerning with wants me to wait until I am 37 to enter. I often wonder whether God would just leave me like this my whole life, without ever giving me a clear, positive indication of where to say "forever", i.e., what "relational vow" to take. I suspect there are quite a few people out there who feel called to marriage, but no one ever turns up in their life. What then? What should one think God wants from them in a case like that? I just don't know. To the OP: You are not expressing any feelings of a positive call one way or another, you are only expressing negative feelings toward life-long relationship to others. It sounds to me like you need to grow in love. I don't say this judgmentally, as I also need to grow in love, and I think most people do. I'm just saying that, if you start to do this, then you might be surprised what grace does for you in a very short time. You may suddenly find yourself not just capable but also open to various vocations you now think impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) I do not think I have a vocation to the priesthood or religious life (life in community in particular seems a dreadfully dangerous prospect). I have recently decided that marriage would be a disaster for all concerned parties as well--though if someone had asked me two days ago what I though my vocation was I would have said marriage and fatherhood without any qualms. I have gathered the general sense from some posts here and from reading various things on the Church's theology of "vocations" that singleness as such is not considered a vocation. Is this correct? (I'm interested in both opinions and any clear Magisterial statements.) Moderators may feel free to move this to vocation station, but I have specific reasons for not posting it there. In the CCC, the only states of life that are considered "vocations" are matrimony and "virginity for the sake of the kingdom", which is further defined as "priestly ministry" and "consecrated life" (CCC 2233). So, unless it is in the context of "virginity for the sake of the kingdom" or if one has a canonical impediment to marriage or ordained or consecrated life (such as a divorced person without an annulment), singleness in and of itself is not a vocation. Besides, with marriage or ordained/consecrated life, vows/solemn promises are taken (as Emily Ann has noted) that "lock" you in to that state of life and generally serve as a canonical impediment to other states of life (example: in the Latin lung of the Church, married peiople cannot be ordained; universally, ordained people cannot enter into marriage unless one is laicized). However, single people who are not under vows have no canonical impediments (due to their state of life) to pursue marriage or ordained/consecrated life as their discernment leads them. I hope that helps. Edited March 10, 2013 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Now I could be entirely wrong here, I have not read extensively on the subject, but this is just my opinion. To me, singleness is our "natural" state in a way. I would suggest that everyone read CCC 1603, which states that the vocation to marriage is the one that is written into our very nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 The disordered nature of my affective desires means that marriage is an undesirable end. It's a state incompatible with my own happiness that could only result in unhappiness and feelings of inadequacy for the other party--not an especially upsetting realization to reach, but I'm not certain as to where to go from here (vis-a-vis living a life of use to God that protects my sanity and holiness without multiplying anyone else's burdens). I've made enough posts before this one for people to able to piece together the exact situation, but my understandings of modesty, politeness, and privacy have sufficiently changed that I'll not be more explicit about "why" than this statement. I haven't seen your other posts regarding this subject, but perhaps these problems you speak of are something you can work on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Actually, John Paul II and others have affirmed that every single one of us is made for marriage -- that is the giving and receiving of love. Obviously, the nuptial meaning of the body takes different expressions in marriage, consecrated and single life, but marriage is our "default" vocation because it is our heavenly destiny. Yes, according to CCC 1603, even though is uses the term "written into our very nature" (as I mentioned in a previous post) rather than "default". But the implication is similar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 Your type is the person God chose for you since the beginning. :wall: :wall: :wall: No, no, no, my little Teutonic Fetus - we've been over this before: http://www.phatmass.com/phorum/topic/127268-im-friends-with-michael-voris/?p=2548505 http://archive.catholic.com/newsletters/kke_080108.asp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 (edited) I suspect there are quite a few people out there who feel called to marriage, but no one ever turns up in their life. What then? What should one think God wants from them in a case like that? I just don't know. Mary Beth Bonacci addresses this topic (and I find her analysis one of the best, if not the best, that I have read so far): http://catholicexchange.com/is-the-single-life-a-vocation/ Her basic point is that many are called to marriage but cannot find a suitable spouse because the dating pool is poisoned. Edited March 10, 2013 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) Mary Beth Bonacci addresses this topic (and I find her analysis one of the best, if not the best, that I have read so far): http://catholicexchange.com/is-the-single-life-a-vocation/ Her basic point is that many are called to marriage but cannot find a suitable spouse because the dating pool is poisoned. I've heard similar, but that a suitable spouse for them was already killed through the abortion industry. Edited March 11, 2013 by Slappo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaudium et spes Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 I've heard similar, but that a suitable spouse for them was already killed through the abortion industry. Horrifying. Like this: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Horrifying. Like this: As catchy an argument as that is, unfortunately it's a horrible argument against abortion. It limits the value of persons to what they may have accomplished rather than the intrinsic value and dignity due them as a created person designed for God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaudium et spes Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Very true! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slappo Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Very true! Don't feel bad though :). I loved that argument until I took Philosophy of the Human Person at FUS :). Hypothetically we could reach a stage in technology where we could identify someone's IQ by DNA or some such thing and then the argument would only work for "smart" fetus' which would be terribly sad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gaudium et spes Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 Don't feel bad though :). I loved that argument until I took Philosophy of the Human Person at FUS :). Hypothetically we could reach a stage in technology where we could identify someone's IQ by DNA or some such thing and then the argument would only work for "smart" fetus' which would be terribly sad. I wish I had access to such classes! But thank you for the correction; :cheers: I appreciate it. Technology can be such a good thing, but it can also be so misused, as in the case you suggest. :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 And the idea of a one true soul mate isn't actually a Catholic idea. We don't have a one true soul mate. I could probably have a wonderfully holy marriage with any number of men currently residing within a ten mile radius of where I currently sit. What matters is the commitment I make with the one I choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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