Should Children Be Shamed

[Roamin Catholic]

Perhaps, but i didn't just "babysit" I full time, live in nannied...the kids spent less time with their parents than they did with me.

 

I also have friends who generally use the "praise in public, correct in private" method.  They make a point to not call out their children in public nor bring any kind of public shame.

 

 

Still different than having your own kids. 

[IcePrincessKRS]

Perhaps, but i didn't just "babysit" I full time, live in nannied...the kids spent less time with their parents than they did with me.

 

I also have friends who generally use the "praise in public, correct in private" method.  They make a point to not call out their children in public nor bring any kind of public shame.

 

My sister was a live in nanny, too. I'm not unfamiliar with how that works. It's still a completely different dynamic.

 

If one of my kids is being bad in public I'm going to discretely tell them they are being disrespectful and to knock it off. I'm not going to wait till we get home to give correction.

[Lil Red]

Still different than having your own kids. 

 

no kidding!

[Autumn Dusk]

Lets go back to teacher then, if I'm not qualified enough...besides a simple corretion I do not think that anyone should speak or humiliate a student in a way that causes shame.

[Lil Red]

My sister was a live in nanny, too. I'm not unfamiliar with how that works. It's still a completely different dynamic.

 

If one of my kids is being bad in public I'm going to discretely tell them they are being disrespectful and to knock it off. I'm not going to wait till we get home to give correction.

 

besides which, they'll most likely forget what you're talking about before you get home if you wait that long.

[Roamin Catholic]

Lets go back to teacher then, if I'm not qualified enough...besides a simple corretion I do not think that anyone should speak or humiliate a student in a way that causes shame.

 

 

You're a teacher? Ok, lets roll with that one. 

 

 

Fear of shame can drive someone to perform better. 

 

Not saying it is the right or wrong way, but it can be a useful motivational tactic that does work. 

Edited March 7, 2013 by Roamin_Catholic

[homeschoolmom]

Lets go back to teacher then, if I'm not qualified enough...besides a simple corretion I do not think that anyone should speak or humiliate a student in a way that causes shame.

Well....

 

Some children feel shame when the teacher addresses the class and tells them to be quiet-- even if that child was not being loud himself.

 

Some children feel no shame when having their name called over the PA system to go talk to the principal.

 

Should a teacher deliberately attempt to humiliate a child in a way that would be considered bullying? No.

 

Should a teacher correct a child who is doing wrong, even if that child feels embarassment for what s/he did? Yes. Sometimes.

[Autumn Dusk]

besides which, they'll most likely forget what you're talking about before you get home if you wait that long.

 

I stopped what I was doing and left.  The consequence of having to eat veggies for dinner because we had no mac'n'cheese or not going to the park was usually consequence enough.

[IcePrincessKRS]

Lets go back to teacher then, if I'm not qualified enough...besides a simple corretion I do not think that anyone should speak or humiliate a student in a way that causes shame.

 

I imagine being a teacher makes private correction even harder than it is for parents. I suppose someone like Lillabettte who actually is a teacher is better qualified to answer on that point, but I don't think a lot of teachers get much one on one time (I assume it depends on your classroom, school, and the number of students under your tutelage), and in the moment something naughty or disruptive is happening they need to make it stop. That likely involves public correction. That doesn't mean they have to yell or ridicule the child into feeling ashamed, but a simple "Johnny, please stop" is often enough to make a kid stop and feel embarrassed that they got caught being naughty (although that's more my experience with my friends children, not a classroom environment).

Edited March 7, 2013 by IcePrincessKRS

[IcePrincessKRS]

besides which, they'll most likely forget what you're talking about before you get home if you wait that long.

 

You know that's right! Ha!

 

I stopped what I was doing and left.  The consequence of having to eat veggies for dinner because we had no mac'n'cheese or not going to the park was usually consequence enough.

 

My kids eat veggies for dinner pretty much every night anyway. That's not really a punishment. Grounding, sure, happens all the time. Spankings, too, if I feel the naughtiness warranted it. When I'm in the middle of the grocery store with a cart full of stuff that I need to make dinner that night leaving right that second isn't really an option. Hence discrete public correction.

[IcePrincessKRS]

I imagine being a teacher makes private correction even harder than it is for parents. I suppose someone like Lillabettte who actually is a teacher is better qualified to answer on that point, but I don't think a lot of teachers get much one on one time (I assume it depends on your classroom, school, and the number of students under your tutelage), and in the moment something naughty or disruptive is happening they need to make it stop. That likely involves public correction. That doesn't mean they have to yell or ridicule the child into feeling ashamed, but a simple "Johnny, please stop" is often enough to make a kid stop and feel embarrassed that they got caught being naughty (although that's more my experience with my friends children, not a classroom environment).

 

I would like to add to this that one of my brothers was the victim of a bully teacher. I know how difficult that can be on a kid. But those kinds of teachers, as far as my experience goes, are not the norm. And public correction is not the same as a teacher repeatedly being mean and bullying the same kid for paltry offenses (that every other kid gets away with).

Edited March 7, 2013 by IcePrincessKRS

[Roamin Catholic]

You know that's right! Ha!

 

 

My kids eat veggies for dinner pretty much every night anyway. That's not really a punishment. Grounding, sure, happens all the time. Spankings, too, if I feel the naughtiness warranted it. When I'm in the middle of the grocery store with a cart full of stuff that I need to make dinner that night leaving right that second isn't really an option. Hence discrete public correction.

 

 

Eating veggies shouldn't be used as punishment anyways. Its that type of crap that leads to health problems later in life as the person will grow up associating healthy food with "punishment"

[MIKolbe]

i'm probably a jerk alert.....

 

 

Addie was acting up in the grocery store.  They give away free cookies to kids if they have a 'cookie card'.  Well Addie had one, and boy did she use it.  She loved her cookie card, and would play with it, using it like a credit card for her little 'grocery store check out' toy.  Many, many times we would tell her not to play with it because she might lose it. (she's 4 and misplaces things).  She would listen to us, then proceed to play with it anyways.

 

Well, we were at the store, and Addie had her little Hello Kitty fuzzy purse with her for the trip.  She went to get her card..and lo and behold, it was not there.  I told her if she didn't have her card, she couldn't get her cookie.  (something we reminded her when asking her not to play with it).  Well, she flipped. Like any 4 year old, she can be very loud.  Kids are not as stupid as we think they are.  Addie knows if she throws a big enough fit, Mom and Dad might acquiesce to her request.  (what can i say, i ain't a perfect dad.  there have been times that this has worked, so my bad..sometimes it's about what battles you want to win) 

 

I listen and responded empathetically, but 'held the line'.  Well, she just flipped more.  Just as the stress of having other people turn around (and the stressful thoughts that entails as your kid is melting down in a public place), I turned to a nice little grandma (who seems a bit perturbed at the noise) and said, "Wow, take a look at my little girl, isn't she loud?", then I saw another, "Would you like to see how loud she is?".  Addison was oblivious as she had a fit to throw.  She looks up, and sees me and 4 other people just looking at her.  Just.Looking.  She quiets immediately, gets up, and 'hides' behind me.  I 'mouth' "thank you" to everyone and they go on their way.

 

Was she shamed?  maybe. possibly.  probably.

 

But I have to agree with Papist, the shame is in her behavior; I was just facilitating its presentation.

 

Another story, I worked it out with a friend.. a rather large friend, that he was to pick up her and take her to the back of the church if she acted up, after a signal from me. Addie gets antsy, ok fine.  We work through that.  But she can get loud when she doesn't get what she wants.  So she wanted to balance books on the edge of the pew during the Gospel, and I said no. "DADDYYYYYYYYYYY, BUT I WAANNNNNAAAAA".  He got the 'signal' from me, grabbed and swiftly picked her up (he was sitting right behind her, as we had worked this out), took her to the back (we had a pew worked out) and said "no playing in church".  Stood her beside him, and they listened to the rest of the Gospel. It helped that Addie did not know who this guy was.  They walked back up after the homily, and Addie was alert, quiet, and attentive the rest of the Mass.  I whispered how happy i was to see her, and we hugged. Her acting up in Mass has decreased tremendously.

[MissScripture]

I stopped what I was doing and left. The consequence of having to eat veggies for dinner because we had no mac'n'cheese or not going to the park was usually consequence enough.

So what happens when you are at the store to get the veggies? Or when the kid figures out that if they misbehave they get to leave wherever they are and go home, and then decides they don't really want to wait at the bank or wherever else it is that the outcome of errands doesn't really affect them? And what about when you have multiple kids? The well behaved kids would end up with the same punishment as the misbehaving child, and it would be necessary to tell them why there is no trip to the park, which amounts to the same as correcting the child in front of them. ETA: Or if they didn't they would notice that Johnny doesn't get any mac and cheese or to go to the park, and they would know why. It would be one thing to intentionally humiliate a child for something beyond their control, like if they wet their pants or something, it is entirely different to correct their misbehavior in public, if it is warranted.

[PhuturePriest]

Once when I was really little we were having Thanksgiving with our family, and I suppose I started eating before everyone else or something, but nobody stopped me or said anything. I just kept staring down at the plate and ate my turkey. When it became apparent to me that the room of twelve people was deafeningly silent, I looked up and saw everyone staring at me. Needless to say I never did that again. Shame is part of human nature. It's what helps us and motivates us to stop doing bad things. Can we overdo it? Yes. But that doesn't make shame a bad thing. My parents weren't afraid to let me feel shame, and in my opinion that helped me to feel shame in a more real way than I would have. If I ever misbehave here I automatically feel shame as soon as I realize I a misbehaving and I apologize. Something you won't see a lot of teenagers that got away with doing whatever they want because nobody wanted them to feel shame do.