Homosexuality Within The Priesthood

[MissyP89]

A question for possible discussion -- Franny, if you want me to make a new thread on this (or want to stop me completely, lest I create a monster that you'll have to deal with) let me know:

 

What do you guys think about gay priests and some of the numbers that get thrown around re: straight and gay priests? The Church typically says being gay/"having SSA" is an impediment to the priesthood.

 

Do you agree? Should priests come out? What could the impact be on the Church if they did?

 

I look at what happens here in the phamily when someone comes out about something tricky, and how often it inspires really great conversations and new freedom to be honest. 

 

Sometimes, I think our priests aren't permitted that same honesty. We can be open about struggle, but it seems to me they never can.

 

I wish that weren't the case.

 

Note well before replying: this is NOT a question about abuse or sexual sin of any kind. I'm referring simply to a priest who recognizes he is gay or bi but remains faithful to the Church.

[franciscanheart]

I just made a new thread with your initial post. ;)


For the record, the end of my discernment came with my understanding that because I am queer, I can never enter a faithful religious order. I am almost certain the same is true for men who feel called to priesthood. I had to accept that, though I feel called, the Church on earth cannot permit me to live my life in community with other women religious.


*queer = queer

[Tufsoles]

I agree with Franny especially with the theological and several other aspects. Once again I am hoping that a scholar may come down and give some back up.

[Papist]

Instruction Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders 

 

The candidate to the ordained ministry, therefore, must reach affective maturity. Such maturity will allow him to relate correctly to both men and women, developing in him a true sense of spiritual fatherhood towards the Church community that will be entrusted to him.

 

I see these two qualities being very problematic for a man with homosexual tendencies. 

[franciscanheart]

[quote name="Papist" post="2552349" timestamp="1362588210"]
[url="http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccatheduc/documents/rc_con_ccatheduc_doc_20051104_istruzione_en.html#_ftnref7"]Instruction Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in view of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders[/url]


I see these two qualities being very problematic for a man with homosexual tendencies.[/quote]I don't see how his ability to mature is any different than a heterosexual man, but do not question the Church's ruling on keeping the homosexual population out of the priesthood. Certainly their burden is different, but I do not believe it hinders them from proper maturity.

[Papist]

I don't see how his ability to mature is any different than a heterosexual man, but do not question the Church's ruling on keeping the homosexual population out of the priesthood. Certainly their burden is different, but I do not believe it hinders them from proper maturity.

 

I don't know about this "proper" maturity. But affective maturity makes sense to me.

[MissyP89]

I can definitely understand why the Church would hold the position she does about gay men entering the priesthood in the first place. The same can be said for women seeking to enter religious life, but that's not the topic for today.

 

I just wonder more about the population of gay men already in the priesthood. Whether or not they should be there, they are there now.

 

I wonder what it would be like if some were to come out as a voice of strength and chastity to GLBT Catholics. I think it could do an immeasurable amount of good.

 

But I also wonder if the Church is more concerned with keeping difficult things quiet in the name of preventing "scandal."

 

Personally, I am for honesty and openness, no matter what the consequences are from the media or the folks in the pews.

[franciscanheart]

I don't know about this "proper" maturity. But affective maturity makes sense to me.

I guess I don't see where a homosexual's sexuality has any effect on sex drive. Maybe I misunderstand the point you're attempting to make, but it would seem to me that homosexuals are just as capable of affective maturity as heterosexuals.

[PhuturePriest]

From what I have understood, men with same-sex attraction are allowed to become Priests, but not actively gay men. I could be wrong though. Either way, it would be difficult, but my spiritual director has same-sex attraction (Not openly. Most people don't know, and he's a huge traditionalist) and he's one of the best Priests I have ever known. I don't see why just because he has same-sex attraction that should stop him from being a Priest.

[franciscanheart]

From what I have understood, men with same-sex attraction are allowed to become Priests, but not actively gay men.

That's not how I've understood it, but I, also, may be mistaken.

[Papist]

Can a man with homosexual tendencies function as a good priest? Yes.  However, looking at the priesthood as a whole, I see the priest has a spousal relationship with the Church and in spiritual paternity. Also he needs to be free of everything that would harm the fruitful exercise of his ministry. The spousal relationship and spiritual paternity are strange to homosexuality and cannot in person nor represent conjugal life and priestly life. This is a counter indication for priesthood for which only men and stable men, mature in their masculinity, have to be call to act in persona Christi.  This might be my paradigm of thinking or just my plain ignorance, but I can't get over what I see as inharmoniousness.

[Nihil Obstat]

I have a certain intuition that the best priests would have made the best husbands and fathers, and vice versa. That the same fundamental sacrifices and dispositions are required in each vocation, albeit differently expressed. So if one could not or should not be a husband and father, then he also could not or should not be a priest.

I think this follows nicely from the concept in which the Church is the bride of Christ, and a man, when ordained, becomes an alter Christus, effectively 'marrying' the Church.

[franciscanheart]

Can a man with homosexual tendencies function as a good priest? Yes.  However, looking at the priesthood as a whole, I see the priest has a spousal relationship with the Church and in spiritual paternity. Also he needs to be free of everything that would harm the fruitful exercise of his ministry. The spousal relationship and spiritual paternity are strange to homosexuality and cannot in person nor represent conjugal life and priestly life. This is a counter indication for priesthood for which only men and stable men, mature in their masculinity, have to be call to act in persona Christi.  This might be my paradigm of thinking or just my plain ignorance, but I can't get over what I see as inharmoniousness.

Can you expound upon the bold part? This is where we begin to see things differently, though I've no doubt it's my ignorance which causes our division of thought.

I also think that homosexual men often are or can be mature in their masculinity. It's not that they're ALL feminine; some are attracted on a deeper / different level to the masculinity they see in others.

[franciscanheart]

I guess what I'm ultimately saying is that I don't think it's fair to classify all homosexual men the same way. They are as varied in their characteristics / maturity / capability as straight men.

[Papist]

Can you expound upon the bold part? This is where we begin to see things differently, though I've no doubt it's my ignorance which causes our division of thought.

I also think that homosexual men often are or can be mature in their masculinity. It's not that they're ALL feminine; some are attracted on a deeper / different level to the masculinity they see in others.

 

It is very difficult for me to articulate my thinking here. But the root of it is that the priest/Church relationship is to emulate the Christ/Church spousal relationship and be our spiritual father (fathers have spouses).