Cool Quote I Read Today

[Era Might]

Are you considering yourself Catholic right now?

 

I never stopped considering myself Catholic, though i don't define that in institutional terms. I'm learning to live on the margins of the church...I don't take much interest in the institution, though in Christ I have never lost my interest.

[Nihil Obstat]

I never stopped considering myself Catholic, though i don't define that in institutional terms. I'm learning to live on the margins of the church...I don't take much interest in the institution, though in Christ I have never lost my interest.

I see. But do you believe?

[Era Might]

I see. But do you believe?

 

No, I can't say that I do, but I still pray, I still go to Mass. I've taken a variant of Pascal's Wager...if nothing else, I see religion as the embodiment of human values and struggles, and Christianity is the context in which I seek those values and struggles. I believe in the idea of Christ, if not in the person. Prayer is an orientation in life...whether anyone is actually listening is beside the point for me, though I have not discarded the possibility. The spiritual struggle is a way of being in the world...it is not, to me, dependent on whether the theology is true or not.

[Nihil Obstat]

No, I can't say that I do, but I still pray, I still go to Mass. I've taken a variant of Pascal's Wager...if nothing else, I see religion as the embodiment of human values and struggles, and Christianity is the context in which I seek those values and struggles. I believe in the idea of Christ, if not in the person. Prayer is an orientation in life...whether anyone is actually listening is beside the point for me, though I have not discarded the possibility. The spiritual struggle is a way of being in the world...it is not, to me, dependent on whether the theology is true or not.

That is another example of how different our perspectives are. I cannot imagine the faith and the religion not going together. By which I mean that I cannot imagine myself believing in the Church but not being Catholic, or being Catholic but not believing in the Church.

If I did not believe Catholicism to be true, I would much rather be Shinto or Zen Buddhist or something. Rofl.

And of course that is a conditional statement not meant to be taken seriously in any meaningful way.

[Amppax]

One of my favorite quotes, although I've heard it attributed to someone else, who I can't remember for the life of me. 

[Era Might]

That is another example of how different our perspectives are. I cannot imagine the faith and the religion not going together. By which I mean that I cannot imagine myself believing in the Church but not being Catholic, or being Catholic but not believing in the Church.

If I did not believe Catholicism to be true, I would much rather be Shinto or Zen Buddhist or something. Rofl.

And of course that is a conditional statement not meant to be taken seriously in any meaningful way.

 

Yes I've flirted with exploring Buddhism. I actually want to do a very extensive search into the origins of religion and belief. The reason why I don't think the spiritual life depends on the truth of belief is because the world has all kinds of beautiful ways of living the spiritual struggle. Buddhism is one example, suited to other societies, just as Christianity is another example (though I distinguish between Christianity and Christ). I do think there is something unique about Christ, something very remarkable that comes through in the Gospels. In Christ I see something beautiful and profound, which is why it angers me to see Christianity in comparison. But I tend to take a spiritual view of things. I don't think Christ came to create a "religion" as we understand it. That is not to say I don't believe in the church, as I think it is essential to Christ, but I don't think the church is what we imagine it to be, a fortress of civilization and a repository of traditions. The church is the bond of everything St. Paul talks about...the law of love, purity, joy, faith, hope, longsuffering. I think it's unfortunate that Christianity has to explain away Christ. I find the Sermon on the Mount very beautiful. I don't think the vocation of the church is to ensure everything at all costs...just the opposite, the church is to give up everything in witness, to live in the radical joy and freedom that the Gospel made possible, and not be wise in the ways of the world. I've learned not to worry about the institutional system that Christianity has created...it's understandable that the church is hard of heart, like Israel before it, but I don't think the institution has anything to do with what Christ intended. I think the church lives in the Gospel, rather than the Gospel in the church.

Edited March 5, 2013 by Era Might

[Evangetholic]

If I though Christianity a lie I absolutely would convert to Islam.

[Gabriela]

I like the quote very much.

 

And whatever is going on between EM and NO seems really personal, but just in case it's not, I'm curious to know: EM, what happened? Sounds like you lost your faith within the memory of your membership on PM. Why? If it's none of my business, just say so. :-)

[Nihil Obstat]

I like the quote very much.

And whatever is going on between EM and NO seems really personal, but just in case it's not, I'm curious to know: EM, what happened? Sounds like you lost your faith within the memory of your membership on PM. Why? If it's none of my business, just say so. :-)

It is not personal on my end, but obviously it is a sensitive subject in general.

[Gabriela]

I don't mean to pry (though obviously I am...). I've just had so many conversions myself that I'm always curious to know how others come to gain and lose faith.

[Didacus]

I like it!

 

Here's a quote I came accross the other day that I like:

 

 

 

You can't control the wave, but you can learn how to serf!

 

Mr.T!

[Era Might]

I like the quote very much.

 

And whatever is going on between EM and NO seems really personal, but just in case it's not, I'm curious to know: EM, what happened? Sounds like you lost your faith within the memory of your membership on PM. Why? If it's none of my business, just say so. :-)

 

No, it's not personal. I just outgrew it. Or rather, I outgrew the Catholicism I converted into (American orthodoxy, apologetics scene, answer for everything Catholicism). I came to see it for what it was, people's social perceptions dressed up in theology (and vice versa). I guess I'm a victim of what they used to call in the old days "bad reading" hehe.

 

The other thing was seeing that spiritual phenomena is not limited to Catholicism. The ancient greeks had oracles from the gods just as modern Catholics think they have messages from the Virgin Mary. This did not make me hostile to religion, but it led me to see religion as an expression of humanity rather than a narrative fallen from heaven.

 

But as I said before, I see Christianity as the context in which I live and breathe. It is my way of being in the world. I believe in the idea of Christ, in a very traditional way at that. I have no interest in taking power in the institution...I find the institution generally boring and self-important. I am interested in what it means to believe Christ, to go two miles with someone when they ask for one, to give your cloak when they ask for your staff, to love your enemies, to see prostitutes and tax collectors entering the kingdom before the pharisees. I take Christ very seriously...Christianity, not so much. But I am always reminded of something Dorothy Day used to quote, about how the church is the cross on which Christ is crucified, and you can't separate him from his cross. I feel that very much when I am at Mass...I don't care about the bishops and their self-importance, but I am concerned about the church as the family of god, which we must bear with in the sense that St. Paul talked about. I don't care about the busybody ministries at the parish, but I care about what St. Paul tells us to do, to bear one another's burdens. That, for me, is what Christianity remains, and to which I remain attached. I do not go around looking for people to argue with in real life...that's only on the Internet (and it's one of the reasons why I dislike the Internet and am trying to extricate myself from it).

[Gabriela]

No, it's not personal. I just outgrew it. Or rather, I outgrew the Catholicism I converted into (American orthodoxy, apologetics scene, answer for everything Catholicism). I came to see it for what it was, people's social perceptions dressed up in theology (and vice versa). I guess I'm a victim of what they used to call in the old days "bad reading" hehe.

 

The other thing was seeing that spiritual phenomena is not limited to Catholicism. The ancient greeks had oracles from the gods just as modern Catholics think they have messages from the Virgin Mary. This did not make me hostile to religion, but it led me to see religion as an expression of humanity rather than a narrative fallen from heaven.

 

But as I said before, I see Christianity as the context in which I live and breathe. It is my way of being in the world. I believe in the idea of Christ, in a very traditional way at that. I have no interest in taking power in the institution...I find the institution generally boring and self-important. I am interested in what it means to believe Christ, to go two miles with someone when they ask for one, to give your cloak when they ask for your staff, to love your enemies, to see prostitutes and tax collectors entering the kingdom before the pharisees. I take Christ very seriously...Christianity, not so much. But I am always reminded of something Dorothy Day used to quote, about how the church is the cross on which Christ is crucified, and you can't separate him from his cross. I feel that very much when I am at Mass...I don't care about the bishops and their self-importance, but I am concerned about the church as the family of god, which we must bear with in the sense that St. Paul talked about. I don't care about the busybody ministries at the parish, but I care about what St. Paul tells us to do, to bear one another's burdens. That, for me, is what Christianity remains, and to which I remain attached. I do not go around looking for people to argue with in real life...that's only on the Internet (and it's one of the reasons why I dislike the Internet and am trying to extricate myself from it).

 

Thank you for that very honest explanation, EM. :-)