Words Matter. Velatio Should Not Be Hijacked By Mantilla-ters Or Hat-t

[freudianslippers]

Is this thread relevant?

 

I think it is relevant. I happened upon this thread most accidentally and am very curious about the question posed. I think it's relevant because, as struggling Cathlolic mom, and a friend of many atheists who are very confused about Catholics thanks to the media's portrayal of Christianity (please google "Westboro Baptist Church"), I want not only to understand the many facets of my faith and Catholic culture, but am eager to share what I know with the above mentioned friends. It is so important to know one's faith and keep it.

[freudianslippers]

Let it be known that on matters such as this where I have no opinion (Mostly because I have never been bored enough to have an opinion on it), throw my opinion on Slappo's side since we agree on stuff 100% of the time. I can't remember a time where we didn't.

 

What a shame. I came here with an open mind. What I see is a bunch of elitists trying to show off with great arrogance what they "know to be true." You are no different from my "know it all" atheist friends who also speak with boredom on the subject of redemption. You are no different than the other sanctimonious Catholics who profess to know more than the Pope himself.

[freudianslippers]

Next time somebody calls me a pedant, I am linking to this thread.

 

Why is that?

[freudianslippers]

Lots of words have Latin roots. Doesn't make them relevant. 

 

 

You keep switching between velatio and veiling as if they are the same word. They are not. 

 

What's the difference?

 

Thank you.

[Slappo]

This thread has nothing to do with whether or not the wearing of headcoverings is mandated by Canon Law, Catholic doctrine, or Catholic discipline. At least according to the original post.

 

Definition for veil when used as a verb:

verb (used with object)

9.

to cover or conceal with or as with a veil: She veiled her face in black. A heavy fog veiled the shoreline.

10.

to hide the real nature of; mask; disguise: to veil one's intentions.

verb (used without object)

11.

to don or wear a veil: In certain Islamic countries women must veil.

Idioms

12.

take the veil, to become a nun.

 

9 and 10 would be the act of veiling something such as the veiling of holy images during passiontide. 11 would be the act of putting on a veil. The use of the word veiling is not restricted to a particular ritual.

 

 

That being said I think I have to bow out from replying, because all the off topic jargon and people repeating the same thing over and over again is getting to me. I don't understand how it can be said any simpler than it has been.

[Nihil Obstat]

Why is that?

Because this thread and some of the people in it appear to be weirdly pedantic. I thought my implicature was pretty clear there.

[Nihil Obstat]

Reyb and I do.

They don't think it be like it is, but it do.

[PhuturePriest]

Are we Jewish? Didn't Christ - through the discipline of the Church - change this and free us from it? Is there any pertinent document from any Pope indicating a desire to return to this practice? I am a Roman Catholic and I listen to Rome.

 

Remember that in 1917, the Church's discipline was thus:  "It is consistent with ancient discipline, women be separated from men in church.  Men, in a church or outside a church, while they are assisting at sacred rites, shall be bare-headed, unless the approved mores of the people or peculiar circumstances of things determine otherwise; women, however, shall have a covered head and be modestly dressed, especially when they approach the table of the Lord."  OLD canon 1262.  

Now, in our recent times we have this from the Church:  Concerning St. Paul’s statement to the Corinthians, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has stated that this was a discipline based on customs of the time, not a permanent moral obligation: “But it must be noted that these ordinances, probably inspired by the customs of the period, concern scarcely more than disciplinary practices of minor importance, such as the obligation imposed upon women to wear a veil on their head (1 Cor 11: 2-16); such requirements no longer have a normative value.” CDF, decl. Inter Insigniores (15 oct. 1976) n. 4.

 

Did I, in any way, condone that women should be on the left and the men on the right? No. I was making idle conversation, saying that the Jews do it, too. I'm not saying the Church should do this. You have a terrible tendency of walking in on threads and then accusing people of saying things they didn't say or imply.

[freudianslippers]

I think you are very rude. You are only concerned with your beliefs and no one else's. I was very honest about something that jarred me concerning this practice and I spoke about it with an openness to learn more but also to show my own feelings. Why is it that only "pro veil" feelings are okay? Do I sound bitter? I think you sound bitter. Physician, heal thyself.

False. I do not wear my chapel veil/mantilla/veil for a fasion statement. That was never a reason for me and it never will be. What you are insinuating is very insulting.

Nobody said that anybody is more holy for wearing chapel veils. I don't think I'm holier than anyone else. My spiritual director does not wear a veil and I know she is holier than me. I have every right to wear my chapel veil in the presence of the Eucharistic God and frankly I'm peeved that you're being so negative about my devotion. Nobody here is saying that wearing a veil is mandatory or that it makes someone holier than others. 

 

[PhuturePriest]

What a shame. I came here with an open mind. What I see is a bunch of elitists trying to show off with great arrogance what they "know to be true." You are no different from my "know it all" atheist friends who also speak with boredom on the subject of redemption. You are no different than the other sanctimonious Catholics who profess to know more than the Pope himself.

 

You really have an accusation problem. All I said was I don't have an opinion on this, but I agree with Slappo. But thanks for labeling who I am as a person based off one post. Very profound.

[freudianslippers]

They don't think it be like it is, but it do.

 

I confess I had to look up "pedantic" and it was interesting. I think that words can convict a man or free him. I always loved St. Thomas More for his ability to speak well. Perhaps there is a place for pedantics?

[freudianslippers]

You really have an accusation problem. All I said was I don't have an opinion on this, but I agree with Slappo. But thanks for labeling who I am as a person based off one post. Very profound.

 

No, you said you were bored and I apologize if I misread you but I am tired of all the sanctimonious talk of people who "know everything." There is a whole world of people with no faith, and I found this website in a weird twist of fate and it happened to strike a chord with me. The only problem is, I find people who are just as arrogant and there are no real answers here. I liked what "ABrideofChrist" said because it appealed to me. People who give up something special who have to be beacons of light for the rest of showing us Christ. It's nice to think that there are people who can do that.

 

This society is starving and we need hope. There is so much ambiguity here. I wasn't trying to offend, I really thought I found something here. Guess I'll keep looking for a place to belong.

 

Thanks to everyone for your responses and God bless.

[freudianslippers]

Did I, in any way, condone that women should be on the left and the men on the right? No. I was making idle conversation, saying that the Jews do it, too. I'm not saying the Church should do this. You have a terrible tendency of walking in on threads and then accusing people of saying things they didn't say or imply.

Yes, I walked in on this thread. Sorry to offend. Apparently I am not welcome here.

 

Christ said something of idle conversation: "For every idle word man shall speak, he shall render an account on the day of judgment."

 

This wasn't idle for me. I was looking.

 

I'll look somewhere else.

[Apotheoun]

No, you said you were bored and I apologize if I misread you but I am tired of all the sanctimonious talk of people who "know everything." There is a whole world of people with no faith, and I found this website in a weird twist of fate and it happened to strike a chord with me. The only problem is, I find people who are just as arrogant and there are no real answers here. I liked what "ABrideofChrist" said because it appealed to me. People who give up something special who have to be beacons of light for the rest of showing us Christ. It's nice to think that there are people who can do that.

 

This society is starving and we need hope. There is so much ambiguity here. I wasn't trying to offend, I really thought I found something here. Guess I'll keep looking for a place to belong.

 

Thanks to everyone for your responses and God bless.

You're tired of the "sanctimonious" talk of people who "know everything," and then act in the very manner of those who have offended you. Do I care what the Roman Church's canon law says about head coverings? No. Do I care what the Roman Church's curia thinks about the divine injunction for men to pray with heads uncovered and women to pray with heads covered? No. My Eastern Orthodox friends are right, the Roman Church is willing to revise everything in connection with the liturgy, and in acting in that way it reveals itself to have more in common with Protestantism than with the Eastern Apostolic Churches.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Apotheoun]

I have to admit that I often wonder why I even try to convince my Eastern Orthodox friends that communion with the Roman Church is a good thing. The responses I normally receive from Orthodox Christians focus upon the fact that Rome has no respect for liturgical tradition, and then I am often given links to videos showing the most bizarre liturgical practices (e.g., clown masses, altar servers coming into Church on roller skates, Church buildings gutted of any iconography, liturgical dance, priest's making up their own prayers, etc.), and of course I have to admit to my Orthodox friends that there are problems with the Latin Rite, while trying to simultaneously point out that things are slowly getting better. But are things really getting better in the Roman Church? I honestly do not know, but I have my doubts when I read posts on various Roman Catholic fora that reveal a complete lack of knowledge about the nature of Tradition. Tradition is not a matter of legal enactments of canon law or of statements made by the Roman Church's magisterium; instead, Tradition is about passing on all that has been received from earlier generations as an integral part of the apostolic paradosis and kerygma. Tradition is a living thing not because it is constantly changing (in fact constant change signifies a collapse of Tradition); instead, Tradition is a living reality because it is infused with the life-creating Spirit of God.

Edited March 6, 2013 by Apotheoun