Nihil Obstat Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 ^^ Abstinence isn't just for meat... As for the life of US diocesan priests being unusual... do some reading about guys like Archbishop Ireland from my own state of Minnesota, and how his influence radically changed the church in the US. You'll begin to see how our presbyterate is very different. This "Americanism" was more or less informally regarded as heretical, and was responsible for the mass exodus of Eastern Catholics to the Orthodox churches. In effect a number of the bishops here decided they wanted their own unique church rather than a collection of other churches and traditions coming over from Europe. Rather than simply wait and let the faith in America develop organically, they chose to restructure almost everything, including how church property works, tinkering with Canon law, and forcing uniform practice on Eastern Catholics in particular. As such, the life of priests in the US has been pretty different. It was a very rough transition. I say it whenever it comes up, Archbishop Ireland had a lot to answer for after he passed. It makes me extremely mad reading about how he treated Alexis Toth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Obviously. But "THE marital fast" makes it sound like there are certain times that couples are supposed to abstain. Are there? What are the reasons? I've never heard of this. All married couples (and not just a priest and his wife) are supposed to abstain from sexual relations during the Church's four fasting seasons, as well as on the weekly Wednesday and Friday fasts, and during the paschal season of Great and Holy Week. Married couples are also supposed to fast from marital relations during the 24 hours prior to the reception of Holy Communion. The marital fast is about dedicating oneself to prayer, and is founded upon the teaching of St. Paul in scripture (1 Cor. 7:5). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) All married couples (and not just a priest and his wife) are supposed to abstain from sexual relations during the Church's four fasting seasons, as well as on the weekly Wednesday and Friday fasts, and during the paschal season of Great and Holy Week. Married couples are also supposed to fast from marital relations during the 24 hours prior to the reception of Holy Communion. The marital fast is about dedicating oneself to prayer, and is founded upon the teaching of St. Paul in scripture (1 Cor. 7:5). OMG!!! What if you go to daily Mass?!?!?! And if you observe NFP, you abstain for half the month already. People doing this and NFP would be able to have sex less than half the year! EDIT: You know, dUSt, "O.M.G." can just as easily abbreviate "oh my gosh!" as "oh my G—". I find that philter incredibly annoying! Edited March 3, 2013 by curiousing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 OMG!!! What if you go to daily Mass?!?!?! And if you observe NFP, you abstain for half the month already. People doing this and NFP would be able to have sex less than half the year! EDIT: You know, dUSt, "O.M.G." can just as easily abbreviate "oh my gosh!" as "oh my G—". I find that philter incredibly annoying! Assuming people have sex 3 times a week, that's 156 times a year...less than half the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) OMG!!! What if you go to daily Mass?!?!?! And if you observe NFP, you abstain for half the month already. People doing this and NFP would be able to have sex less than half the year! If you go to daily mass, which by the way is not an Eastern custom, you would be abstaining from marital relations a lot. As far as NFP is concerned, its motivation (i.e., spacing births) is not an Eastern Christian concern; and moreover, it is not a practice founded upon the dominical or patristic tradition. The marital fast is not about spacing births or avoiding the responsibility of having children; instead, it is about dedicating oneself to prayer and uniting oneself to the liturgical cycles of the Church. People simply keeping the marital fast will have sex less than half the year without doing NFP, because there are over 200 days of fasting in the Byzantine liturgical calendar. Edited March 3, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Assuming people have sex 3 times a week, that's 156 times a year...less than half the year. 1) What an assumption. :-P 2) Now do the math to subtract all the weeks one wouldn't be allowed to have marital relations if observing both marital fasts and NFP. Less than a quarter? Big difference! 3) There's also a big difference to the couple in only actually doing it less than half the year and being ALLOWED to do it less than half the year. I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, but marital fasts + NFP seems like it might be overkill. If you go to daily mass, which by the way is not an Eastern custom, you would be abstaining from marital relations a lot. As far as NFP is concerned, its motivation (i.e., spacing births) is not an Eastern Christian concern; and moreover, it is not a practice founded upon the dominical or patristic tradition. The marital fast is not about spacing births or avoiding the responsibility of having children; instead, it is about dedicating oneself to prayer and uniting oneself to the liturgical cycles of the Church. People simply keeping the marital fast will have sex less than half the year without doing NFP, because there are over 200 days of fasting in the Byzantine liturgical calendar. Wait. I thought this marital fast thing was in the Roman Catholic tradition. Are you saying it's not? It's only Eastern Orthodox? And what is the point of fasting over half the year? That seems like overkill to me, too. Fasts—or anything, for that matter—lose their "specialness", i.e., their ability to "lift" a person spiritually, if they're done all the time. They just become routine... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Era Might Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 1) What an assumption. :-P Yeah, I imagine it's a little too generous of an assumption on average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 If you go to daily mass, which by the way is not an Eastern custom, you would be abstaining from marital relations a lot. As far as NFP is concerned, its motivation (i.e., spacing births) is not an Eastern Christian concern; and moreover, it is not a practice founded upon the dominical or patristic tradition. The marital fast is not about spacing births or avoiding the responsibility of having children; instead, it is about dedicating oneself to prayer and uniting oneself to the liturgical cycles of the Church. People simply keeping the marital fast will have sex less than half the year without doing NFP, because there are over 200 days of fasting in the Byzantine liturgical calendar. glad i'm not an Eastern Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Latin Catholics are not bound to observe a marital fast. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 . . . Wait. I thought this marital fast thing was in the Roman Catholic tradition. Are you saying it's not? It's only Eastern Orthodox? And what is the point of fasting over half the year? That seems like overkill to me, too. Fasts—or anything, for that matter—lose their "specialness", i.e., their ability to "lift" a person spiritually, if they're done all the time. They just become routine... The marital fast was common to both East and West, but - to my knowledge - it is no longer officially observed in the West. Evidently the Church Fathers, and the overall tradition of the Church, which set aside over half the year for fasting did not see it as overkill. I guess the Church Fathers would be out-of-step with today's culture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 glad i'm not an Eastern Christian. Me, too. :hehe2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 glad i'm not an Eastern Christian. I'm glad you are not an Eastern Christian too. Latin Catholics are not bound to observe a marital fast. :) Yes, the Roman Church is constantly dispensing with its traditions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) I'm glad you are not an Eastern Christian too. zing! edit: because that wasn't nice, Lil Red. :nono: Edited March 3, 2013 by Lil Red Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) zing! :hehe2: zing! .... I just saw your edit. Edited March 3, 2013 by Apotheoun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 anyway.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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