mortify Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) A very disturbing article, whether the resignation is anyway linked to what it states is uncertain. What is of particularly concern is the established existence of a clandestine "homolobby" within the highest levels of the Church. http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/feb/21/pope-retired-amid-gay-bishop-blackmail-inquiry ===QUOTE=== Papal resignation linked to inquiry into 'Vatican gay officials', says paper Pope's staff decline to confirm or deny La Repubblica claims linking 'Vatileaks' affair and discovery of 'blackmailed gay clergy' John Hooper in Rome The Guardian, A potentially explosive report has linked the resignation of Pope Benedict XVI to the discovery of a network of gay prelates in the Vatican, some of whom – the report said – were being blackmailed by outsiders. The pope's spokesman declined to confirm or deny the report, which was carried by the Italian daily newspaper La Repubblica. The paper said the pope had taken the decision on 17 December that he was going to resign – the day he received a dossier compiled by three cardinals delegated to look into the so-called "Vatileaks" affair. Last May Pope Benedict's butler, Paolo Gabriele, was arrested and charged with having stolen and leaked papal correspondence that depicted the Vatican as a seething hotbed of intrigue and infighting. According to La Repubblica, the dossier comprising "two volumes of almost 300 pages – bound in red" had been consigned to a safe in the papal apartments and would be delivered to the pope's successor upon his election. The newspaper said the cardinals described a number of factions, including one whose members were "united by sexual orientation". In an apparent quotation from the report, La Repubblica said some Vatican officials had been subject to "external influence" from laymen with whom they had links of a "worldly nature". The paper said this was a clear reference to blackmail. It quoted a source "very close to those who wrote [the cardinal's report]" as saying: "Everything revolves around the non-observance of the sixth and seventh commandments." The seventh enjoins against theft. The sixth forbids adultery, but is linked in Catholic doctrine to the proscribing of homosexual acts. La Repubblica said the cardinals' report identified a series of meeting places in and around Rome. They included a villa outside the Italian capital, a sauna in a Rome suburb, a beauty parlour in the centre, and a former university residence that was in use by a provincial Italian archbishop. Father Federico Lombardi, the Vatican spokesman, said: "Neither the cardinals' commission nor I will make comments to confirm or deny the things that are said about this matter. Let each one assume his or her own responsibilities. We shall not be following up on the observations that are made about this." He added that interpretations of the report were creating "a tension that is the opposite of what the pope and the church want" in the approach to the conclave of cardinals that will elect Benedict's successor. Another Italian daily, Corriere della Sera, alluded to the dossier soon after the pope announced his resignation on 11 February, describing its contents as "disturbing". The three-man commission of inquiry into the Vatileaks affair was headed by a Spanish cardinal, Julián Herranz. He was assisted by Cardinal Salvatore De Giorgi, a former archbishop of Palermo, and the Slovak cardinal Jozef Tomko, who once headed the Vatican's department for missionaries. Pope Benedict has said he will stand down at the end of this month; the first pope to resign voluntarily since Celestine V more than seven centuries ago. Since announcing his departure he has twice apparently referred to machinations inside the Vatican, saying that divisions "mar the face of the church", and warned against "the temptations of power". La Repubblica's report was the latest in a string of claims that a gay network exists in the Vatican. In 2007 a senior official was suspended from the congregation, or department, for the priesthood, after he was filmed in a "sting" organised by an Italian television programme while apparently making sexual overtures to a younger man. In 2010 a chorister was dismissed for allegedly procuring male prostitutes for a papal gentleman-in-waiting. A few months later a weekly news magazine used hidden cameras to record priests visiting gay clubs and bars and having sex. The Vatican does not condemn homosexuals. But it teaches that gay sex is "intrinsically disordered". Pope Benedict has barred sexually active gay men from studying for the priesthood. Edited March 1, 2013 by mortify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangetholic Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I've been following this on fisheaters and elsewhere. Was hoping it would not make it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) That 'news' has been floating around for about two weeks now. The Curia had better be really damn sure that they do their due diligence in approaching this case. If it comes to light (correctly or otherwise) that Benedict was pressured to resign, then that is a tiny crack through which the legitimacy of the next pope may be doubted. I am not sure Federico Lombardi is up to the task of dealing with public relations through this, frankly. Anyway, everyone involved had better be extremely freaking careful. This might be nothing, or it might be a bomb. Edited March 1, 2013 by Nihil Obstat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 I've been following this on fisheaters and elsewhere. Was hoping it would not make it here. Shhh... Fisheaters doesn't exist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Fisheaters is fine. It does not really deserve the poor reputation it has here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/andrew-sullivan-pope-is-gay_n_2776603.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 That 'news' has been floating around for about two weeks now. The Curia had better be really damn sure that they do their due diligence in approaching this case. If it comes to light (correctly or otherwise) that Benedict was pressured to resign, then that is a tiny crack through which the legitimacy of the next pope may be doubted. I am not sure Federico Lombardi is up to the task of dealing with public relations through this, frankly. Anyway, everyone involved had better be extremely freaking careful. This might be nothing, or it might be a bomb. Nihil, My impression is that it's not so much that he was forced out but that he realized he was not up to the task of cleaning house. Perhaps the Holy Father realized a younger soul would be better fit for this battle, but God knows best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Fisheaters is fine. It does not really deserve the poor reputation it has here. The last time I was there I encountered a genuinely shocking degree of antisemitism and support for the Serbian genocide in Bosnia. There were some nice and thoughtful people there. A majority, even. But there was a large minority that are, frankly, fascists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/27/andrew-sullivan-pope-is-gay_n_2776603.html One can speculate anything but if it were true it's interesting it never showed in the Vatileaks scandal, nor has there ever been an accusation of Ratzinger being gay before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the171 Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 I blame this on Michael Voris and his obsession with the 'Gay Mafia.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 I blame this on Michael Voris and his obsession with the 'Gay Mafia.' Please tell me you're being facetious! Has Voris become some kind of scapegoat? The Libs in the Church did a great job of demonizing the guy among ordinary Catholic folk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangetholic Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 The last time I was there I encountered a genuinely shocking degree of antisemitism and support for the Serbian genocide in Bosnia. There were some nice and thoughtful people there. A majority, even. But there was a large minority that are, frankly, fascists. I have a Jewish grandfather. (My Zayde, my beloved Zayde) There is a difference between antisemitism and negative attitudes towards Zionism and what I will call Judaism, but should really call Talmudic Religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 I have a Jewish grandfather. (My Zayde, my beloved Zayde) There is a difference between antisemitism and negative attitudes towards Zionism and what I will call Judaism, but should really call Talmudic Religion. Poignant disctinction but don't you see that to do that is to already engage in antisemitism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evangetholic Posted March 1, 2013 Share Posted March 1, 2013 Explain I do not follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify Posted March 1, 2013 Author Share Posted March 1, 2013 (edited) Explain I do not follow. I was partially kidding but it fell flat. Basically groups that really deserve objective investigation don't want people distinguishing between Talmudic Judaism, Rabbinical Judaism, and Zionism. They prefer that an attack on any segment be deemed "antisemitism" to stiffle an reasonable critique. Edited March 1, 2013 by mortify Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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