A Question For Female Discerners

[BarbTherese]

To my way of thinking, consecrated virginity witnesses to The Church as the Virgin Bride of Christ, while those in religious life witness to the spousal relationship of Christ to His Church.

The Church is her members and thus we are all spouses of Christ, since we are The Church and Christ has one Spouse, His Church - while some vocations witness to this relationship in powerful ways.  We are all members of each other in The Church and no person is any more unique or any more special than the next and no one vocation, to my mind, is any more spousal intrinsically than the next - although the public witness given in the various vocations is different.

 

  Disagreements over 'titles' and what a certain person is and another certain person is not insofar as any title is concerned is in absolutely no way Christ-like whatsoever and reflects for me The Gospel of yesterday : http://dailygospel.org/M/AM/  

 

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03744a.htm

 In these words the Apostle indicates the mysterious parallelism between the union of the first Adam with the spouse formed from his body, and the union of the second Adam with the Church. She is "bone of his bones, and flesh of his flesh", even as Eve was in regard to our first father. And those only belong to the family of the second Adam, who are her children, "born again of water and of the Holy Ghost". Occasionally the metaphor assumes a slightly different form. In Apocalypse 19:7, the marriage of the Lamb to his spouse the Church does not take place till the last day in the hour of the Church's final triumph. Thus too St. Paul, writing to the Corinthians(2 Corinthians 11:2), compares himself to "the friend of the bridegroom", who played so important a part in the Hebrewmarriageceremony (cf. John 3:29). He has, he says, espoused the Corinthian community to Christ, and he holds himself responsible to present it spotless to the bridegroom.

Edited February 27, 2013 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

We are not chosen for the various vocations because of any 'specialness' of our own intrinsicially, rather we are chosen through The Mysterious Will of God for His Glory - the good of The Church and mankind.

While the celibate state for the sake of The Kingdom is a superior way of life objectively speaking, nothing can be superior to the Will of God in all His Expressions great and small.  It would be absolutely impossible to live out faithfully the celibate state or any vocation whatsoever if not for the Grace of God - all Glory and Praise to God in all things small and great for "all is Grace" (St Therese of Lisieux)

Many priests and religious have been raised to the altars of The Church and declared saints - so have married and single people. God's Graces ask our response, but that response in itself is the product of His Grace.  Our Graced will responds to God's Graces positively and wherever I fail, I fail because I chose (free will) not to respond to Grace offered, my response was a negative one.

[BarbTherese]

Well I can't speak for other women but I know that from my point of view, religious life is about a spousal commitment.  It's not in anyway sexual and inappropriate, but rather like wedding vows.  Taking vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience allows us to be totally committed to Christ and to journey with Him.  I kind of see it the same way I would if I were married to a man and I vowed to spend my life with him, i.e. I would make sacrifices for him, move across the country if he got a new job, etc.  The vocation to marriage is beautiful and necessary, and no doubt married people can deeply love Christ, but they also have to divide their focus between spending time with Christ and spending time with their family, coworkers, etc.  Religious life is about sacrificing those things so that there are no distractions from Christ.  So from my female perspective, entering religious life is committing myself to Christ and with Him, bringing souls to Heaven.  Not to mention, consecrated religious are also part of the Church which is the "bride of Christ" so in that way, they are also brides of Christ. (I hope this makes sense to people)

 

I will admit though that I felt a little uncomfortable for awhile when I would hear women talk about religious life in a romantic sense.  I see it totally different now but I know some others don't.

 " The vocation to marriage is beautiful and necessary, and no doubt married people can deeply love Christ, but they also have to divide their focus between spending time with Christ and spending time with their family, coworkers, etc. Religious life is about sacrificing those things so that there are no distractions from Christ. "

 

The above is very true although, and please, I beg, forgive me :blush:, it did come across to me more as tolerance than appreciation, somewhat condescending - yet those who are married are called to this vocation by The Lord and it is His Will and thus their duty to "divide their focus between spending time with Christ.......etc" - and in completing His Will and their duty they are indeed spending time with Christ and for Him. 

Without marriage and children there would be no mankind nor any Church and Mystical Body of Christ - no priests nor religious.  Every single saint on our calendar had first a mother and father.

 

Married people very often have to make tremendous sacrifices and also make tremendous acts of Faith and trust in The Lord.  The journey of marriage can be a quite harrowing journey - not in all instances but in many instances at least in parts if not lifelong.  It takes great Faith and trust in The Lord to remain faithful in that lifelong journey.  For my own personal experience, I never lived so well as I did in monastic life - free from all concern about basic survival with nothing to concern myself about except living in community, my duties and my own sanctification and relationship with Jesus, while this latter did include quite active concern for The Church and mankind.

 

Those in religious life do not have their conscious mind focused on Christ at all times not even in contemplative life.  It is impossible to do so nor is it asked of us - any of us.  Yet in completing faithfully the duties of our state in life, no matter what that state actually is, we are indeed spending time with Christ and for Him and thus, mysteriously, bringing souls to Christ. "And one said unto him: Behold thy mother and thy brethren stand without, seeking thee. [48] But he answering him that told him, said: Who is my
mother, and who are my brethren? [49] And stretching forth his hand towards his disciples, he said: Behold my mother and my brethren. [50] For whosoever shall do the will of my Father, that is in heaven, he is my brother, and sister, and mother."

 

All this 'grading' of vocation along more and then less determinations on various levels is not theologically accurate to my mind. It can be divisive and not contributing to unity so dear to the Heart of Jesus before His Death.  We only need to insight what St Paul has to say about The Church and the various functions of The Mystical Body of Christ: http://www.drbo.org/x/d?b=drb&bk=53&ch=12&l=16#x

 

To my way of thinking, we need to think carefully and prayerfully too about The Will of God and its absolutely superior status.  For example, if one reads the link from St Paul above, one realizes that one could not even consider for one second a religious vocation nor any good thought whatsoever for example without The Grace of The Lord and His Mysterious Will.

 

Vocation in life does not come about apart from The Grace of God (His Will) and His particular call to each individual wherever that may be and it is faithfulness to that call that is important, vitally important - vitally important to The Church and to mankind. 

As an aside: Pope Benedict not all that long ago spoke about the only thing that The Church has to fear is unfaithfulness (sin) in its own membership - that is a vitally important statement, vitally, and worth deep prayerful reflection as it has far reaching ramifications over the obvious! To my mind. 

[BarbTherese]

Pope Benedict - sin in Church's membership the only thing to fear: http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1104798.htm

[Gabriela]

FP, I never thought of God in romantic terms. As a Jew, I saw Him as too distant, as the Great Judge, someone to be revered and worshipped, not to be treated too "familiarly" (in the old sense of that word). Orthodox Jews today would never presume to call God "aba"—"daddy". He is "av"—father. And that about says it all.

 

Now as a Catholic, I see Him closer, but He's still clearly superior at all times. To me, the spousal imagery (sans all the bodily and sexual stuff, which I don't associate with that imagery anyway) is too "equal". I just can't see Him that way. I can't even see Him as brother. To me, He is Shepherd, Teacher, Savior. I relate to Him as my Guide in life, and a Guide obviously is superior in that He knows more and does the leading, and His will is supreme.

 

As an aside (maybe), I have read that people tend to relate to God as they relate/d to their earthly fathers. At least, that's their initial disposition toward Him. It can be hammered out by education and development of the relationship. In my case, though, I definitely did (and to some degree, still do) have the same issues with God as I do with my earthly father. Distance, mistrust, fear of abandonment, etc. This is one reason I find it so tragic that so many children these days are in fact abandoned by their earthly fathers. In my experience, that wreaks havoc on one's ability to relate to, love, and trust the Heavenly Father.

[BarbTherese]

I tend to agree.  My thoughts are probably our first introduction to God as Father will be heavily influenced by our earthly father.  My Dad was regarded as "the gentleman's gentleman" and was very old fashioned but kind and very loving, a man of unswerving Faith to his death.  I am blessed.  It was hard to figure Mum out and where she was on the scale of Faith.  Mum was very outspoken and from the heart with little to no editing. I think my Mum probably was the cause of much gales of laughter in Heaven - and at just how ridiculous and absurd Mum could be at times to my absolute confusion almost until the day she died.  With a statue of Our Lady on her bedside and a Rosary in her hand.  If ever I am to witness a holy and peaceful death it was my very outspoken beloved Ma.  Dad's final words on earth were "well, I guess I am up s*** creek this time".  Dad was very humble.

 

 But in my journey of life to date, while initially God as Father was a welcome image and probably as you point out, due to my Dad, as life and education went on, largely pre VII I went through a stage of being terrified of God as Divine All Knowing Judge as I contemplated my many sins - especially when the nuns told us that on Judgement Day every single person that ever lived, my friends and family, even my enemies would hear every single little and big sin I had ever committed.  I was truly shocked and absolute appalled at the thought - but had no notion nor bright idea as to how I was to pull up my spiritual sox and be less overcome with horror and embarrassment at Judgement (no concept of Grace I could grasp back then as a child). 

 

A Jesuit once asked me how did I view the Persons of The Blessed Trinity ( I would have been in my forties then).  I replied that God the Father and The Holy Spirit are absolute peaches one can wind round the little finger so kind and loving are they - "It's that Other One I keep my eye on, Father!"  Father laughed.  The stern Jesus in The Gospels (and by 40 my head was buried very often indeed in the Old and New Testaments) at times had me very worried as, again, I contemplated my many failures and even hypocrasies.  That stage passed after a few years and I entered into another stage and my 'images' of, and my relationship with, The Lord seems to have opened up and flowered into something entirely different and far more positive and embraced than from some of my past years.  But I went through many years indeed of sighting The Lord's Mercy on all and every person without exception, but not on me.  Dreadful years of endless scruples!

 

This is one reason I find it so tragic that so many children these days are in fact abandoned by their earthly fathers. In my experience, that wreaks havoc on one's ability to relate to, love, and trust the Heavenly Father.

 

I think that you are probably spot on - at least as an initial response.  Thank Him that The Lord is Who He Is and faithfully and that life is indeed a journey and journey is what it states.  I start out at A and journey through B and C, D and F etc. - sometimes back to C and then off to A again and then F - the dance of life with The Lord of The Dance.  Who knows where it ends.  May The Lord of His Mercy grant me and all faithfulness through thick and thin.  Amen.

I love the way the Intentions in The Divine Office so very regularly pray for the salvation of all mankind.