Fridays, Meat, And Lent

[OnlySunshine]

Maybe I'll clarify that a bit then, good point. I'm not talking prime rib, yorkshire pudding, a glass of red wine and a nice salad that's for sure!

 

 

It was frozen hashbrowns, cheese, and one other thing that I forget all mixed together with cream of chicken (not fake chicken broth bullion cubes, but cream of chicken containing bits of chicken meat) and thrown in the oven to bake for a bit. She had me in mind when making it and wouldn't have cooked it otherwise. My guesstimate is prep time 10-15 minutes bake time 20-30 minutes.

 

If it was just bits of chicken like in chicken noodle soup and not great big pieces, wouldn't that be OK?

 

http://www.americancatholic.org/features/lent/lentrules.aspx

 

Abstinence forbids the use of meat, but not of eggs, milk products or condiments made of animal fat.

Abstinence does not include meat juices and liquid foods made from meat.
Thus, such foods as chicken broth, consomme, soups cooked or flavored
with meat, meat gravies or sauces, as well as seasonings or condiments
made from animal fat are not forbidden. So it is permissible to use
margarine and lard. Even bacon drippings which contain little bits of
meat may be poured over lettuce as seasoning.

 

 

[Slappo]

If it was just bits of chicken like in chicken noodle soup and not great big pieces, wouldn't that be OK?

 

http://www.americancatholic.org/features/lent/lentrules.aspx

 

 

 

I've seen that off of American Catholic before, but I've never seen a source from an authoritative figure on the matter (I.E, USCCB according to Canon Law). I don't see how pieces of bacon can be seen as not a meat product. With that same logic, you can have meat on Friday as long as the amount of meat is insubstantial to the overall meal.

 

Throw some minced chicken in some cheese and use the cheese on your nacho's, call the chicken a part of the cheese sauce and you can get away with it? Doesn't seem to be line with Canon Law on abstinence.

[Nihil Obstat]

I've seen that off of American Catholic before, but I've never seen a source from an authoritative figure on the matter (I.E, USCCB according to Canon Law). I don't see how pieces of bacon can be seen as not a meat product. With that same logic, you can have meat on Friday as long as the amount of meat is insubstantial to the overall meal.

 

Throw some minced chicken in some cheese and use the cheese on your nacho's, call the chicken a part of the cheese sauce and you can get away with it? Doesn't seem to be line with Canon Law on abstinence.

I am also a little skeptical. I would like to know where they get that from, at the very least.

[CatholicCid]

The previous link is extrapolating on a Q&A from the USCCB.  

Q.  I understand that all the Fridays of Lent are days of abstinence from meat, but I'm not sure what is classified as meat.  Does meat include chicken and dairy products?

A.  Abstinence laws consider that meat comes only from animals such as chickens, cows, sheep or pigs --- all of which live on land. Birds are also considered meat. Abstinence does not include meat juices and liquid foods made from meat.  Thus, such foods as chicken broth, consomme, soups cooked or flavored with meat, meat gravies or sauces, as well as seasonings or condiments made from animal fat are technically not forbidden.  However, moral theologians have traditionally taught that we should abstain from all animal-derived products (except foods such as gelatin, butter, cheese and eggs, which do not have any meat taste).  Fish are a different category of animal.  Salt and freshwater species of fish, amphibians, reptiles, (cold-blooded animals) and shellfish are permitted.

http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-resources/lent/questions-and-answers-about-lent.cfm

 

I would believe their interpretation of "bacon drippings which contain little pieces of meat" is at best ambiguous and, most likely strays from the generous allowance of "meat juices and liquid foods made from meat."

[Nihil Obstat]

The previous link is extrapolating on a Q&A from the USCCB.  
http://www.usccb.org/prayer-and-worship/liturgical-resources/lent/questions-and-answers-about-lent.cfm
 
I would believe their interpretation of "bacon drippings which contain little pieces of meat" is at best ambiguous and, most likely strays from the generous allowance of "meat juices and liquid foods made from meat."

That USCCB quote also seems to indicate that, while soups flavoured from meat and whatnot, while perhaps not "technically" breaking the fast, also do not truly keep the spirit of the fast. That is what I took from it, at least.

I agree that extrapolating drippings with pieces of meat in it is a bit of a stretch.

[CatholicCid]

(Took too long to edit)

 

 

Edit: This portion from the USCCB Q&A might also be of use to this topic.

Q.  Are there exemptions other than for age from the requirement to fast on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday?

A.  Those that are excused from fast and abstinence outside the age limits include the physically or mentally ill including individuals suffering from chronic illnesses such as diabetes.  Also excluded are pregnant or nursing women.  In all cases, common sense should prevail, and ill persons should not further jeopardize their health by fasting.

 

That being said, the Q&A also makes it clear that the "prescribed days of fast and abstinence on Ash Wednesday and Good Friday, and the days of abstinence every Friday of Lent" are regulated by the Church.

 

So, to the general poll question, I selected "No", but a "No" that would be done in all charity, goodwill, and catechesis. At the same time, common sense should prevail. Given the more specific knowledge Slappo has provided, I don't think it is necessary to abstain from meat if, as some seem to suggest, it could risk upsetting one's marriage. At the same time, the rules of the fast aren't flippant suggestions from the Church, but are things which are to be taken with the most seriousness. We mustn't be overly scrupulous, but we mustn't also fall into laxity. 

 

So, a "No" it is for me. While we should be thankful for what is set before us, this thankful-ness should include the opportunity the Church has set before us and bound us to in uniting in a common sacrifice as one Church in union with Christ on the cross.

 

[edit II]

Nihil,

I would agree. The Q&A seems to provide us with the legalistic approach. But, in doing so, it also reminds us of the spirit of the matter. The question following the one I original quoted addresses this somewhat in it's answer: "Abstaining from meat and other indulgences during Lent is a penitential practice.  On the Fridays of Lent, we remember the sacrifice of Christ on Good Friday and unite ourselves with that sacrifice through abstinence and prayer."

Edited March 2, 2013 by CatholicCid

[Nihil Obstat]

I feel that that "common sense" passage there applies more specifically to health, and those who are exempt from fasting for those reasons.

[Amppax]

Maybe I'll clarify that a bit then, good point. I'm not talking prime rib, yorkshire pudding, a glass of red wine and a nice salad that's for sure!

 

 

It was frozen hashbrowns, cheese, and one other thing that I forget all mixed together with cream of chicken (not fake chicken broth bullion cubes, but cream of chicken containing bits of chicken meat) and thrown in the oven to bake for a bit. She had me in mind when making it and wouldn't have cooked it otherwise. My guesstimate is prep time 10-15 minutes bake time 20-30 minutes.

 

that sounds really good to me. 

[CatholicCid]

I feel that that "common sense" passage there applies more specifically to health, and those who are exempt from fasting for those reasons.

 

Yes, I was being a bit loose with that passage and extrapolating a little of my own  :hehe2:

Perhaps an argued could be made for the "spiritually" ill, or the couple in a marriage where this decision (husband eating a meal, prepared by the wife, with meat on a Lenten Friday) risks actually destroying the marriage. This is where the common sense would come in, I think.

 

[In my previous post, when I said "upsetting one's marriage", this was the scenario I was imagining]

Edited March 2, 2013 by CatholicCid

[OnlySunshine]

To me, eating chicken soup or chicken broth is kind of cheating, too.  I'm just going by what the guidelines say.  I eat eggs, cheese, butter, and milk but I don't eat chicken soups or broths on Fridays.  I LOVE fish, though!  I had grilled tilapia tonight.  :)

[Nihil Obstat]

Yes, I was being a bit loose with that passage and extrapolating a little of my own  :hehe2:

Perhaps an argued could be made for the "spiritually" ill, or the couple in a marriage where this decision (husband eating a meal, prepared by the wife, with meat on a Lenten Friday) risks actually destroying the marriage. This is where the common sense would come in, I think.

 

[In my previous post, when I said "upsetting one's marriage", this was the scenario I was imagining]

Yeah, that sounds reasonable to me. If one had reason to think that not eating the meal was going to cause serious emotional distress for one's spouse, or perhaps push the spouse closer to wanting to leave the marriage, then we have a different situation on our hands.

[IcePrincessKRS]

To me, eating chicken soup or chicken broth is kind of cheating, too.  I'm just going by what the guidelines say.  I eat eggs, cheese, butter, and milk but I don't eat chicken soups or broths on Fridays.  I LOVE fish, though!  I had grilled tilapia tonight.  :)

 

Yeah, that's the way I generally feel about it. If I'm cooking and need broth I'll use vegetable broth. I've seen other sources (there is a page from EWTN quoted earlier in this thread, for example) that say we shouldn't use meat based gravies, broths, things with bits of meat, or that have a meat taste to it. (It was the same link that said if you will cause offense to your host by rejecting the meal you should eat the meat prepared for you.)

[Nihil Obstat]

Speaking of the fast, today I was feeling somewhat discontented with leftover salmon, so instead I made a huge batch of vegetable and shrimp curry. My best one yet. It thickened up perfectly. :proud: 

[OnlySunshine]

Speaking of the fast, today I was feeling somewhat discontented with leftover salmon, so instead I made a huge batch of vegetable and shrimp curry. My best one yet. It thickened up perfectly. :proud:

 

My mom HATES curry!  I still remember when I made Mulligatawny soup and she was so nauseated by the smell that she practically forbade me to cook it in her house again.  :hehe2:

[Nihil Obstat]

My mom HATES curry!  I still remember when I made Mulligatawny soup and she was so nauseated by the smell that she practically forbade me to cook it in her house again.  :hehe2:

Any particular kind of curry, or just all kinds? I like all kinds I have tried so far, but they are all very different. Indian curry compared to Japanese curry... it is nearly a completely different food. :P (I make Japanese style curry, usually.)