Donatists And Holiness Today

[Basilisa Marie]

So one of my MA classes is 'articulated' - meaning it's also an upper-level undergraduate class. We're studying the works of St. Augustine, and all of us MA students have to do an extra project for it.  Mine is a 20 minute presentation on Donatism. 

 

Donatism was a heresy that began around the time of Augustine, that basically said that whether or not a sacrament works depended on how holy the minister was - i.e. holiness = more Jesus powers.  It was also the time persecutions in the Church, and the Donatists believed that martyrdom was the best thing ever, and that anyone who handed over "the holy things" to persecutors, torturers, etc were traitors (and without valid sacraments, of course).  They believed that they were the true Church, because they thought the Church must be made of saints, not sinners.  Augustine wrote a statement called "Against the Donatists." 

 

Now, my presentation has to include something about how this controversy relates to Christians, particularly Catholic Christians, today. I have some ideas, but I'd like to know what you guys think, too. :) 

 

[Evangetholic]

I think and have though for a while now that Donatism is a basic unrevealed human religious urge (some kind of lurking Ur-idea). Not sure if I can explain it, but listen to Voris going ON about gay priests some time and other clerical moral failings. You can see it just seething underneath the surface. He hates their "godless" lives and would like to utterly strip them of sacerdotal powers (but he knows too much theology to give it voice). Evangelicalsm/Pentecostalism which lack a real theology of the sacraments also has this urge--but it's not quite restrained among them.

Edited February 22, 2013 by Evangetholic

[Basilisa Marie]

Yeah, I've noticed this urge among a lot of people, and not even just with priests, but with other Christians.  Lots of people would rather just kick the not-faithful Catholics out of the Church, or have them self-opt out, they long for a more purified Church of true believers, etc.  I don't think it's strictly donatism, but like you said it's pretty apparent below the surface.  
 

But it's also totally understandable.  I mean, say you lived in 300, before Christianity was legal, and the government was persecuting your people. You get called in, and they tell you to renounce your faith and throw some incense on the altar of a false god or they'll kill your kids.  You refuse, they kill your kids.  Then Felix Aptungi down the street gets called in, given the same option, and he throws incense on the fire because HE knows it's meaningless and doesn't want his kids to die.  I'd be super duper pissed off at Felix, especially if Felix got let back into my local church without any retribution.  And then in 311 you find out that Felix has been made a bishop - I'd be furious (I'm making the situation up, but Felix was a real dude that was a traitor-turned-bishop).  It's kinda like how Catholics today choose to follow the hard teachings and are ridiculed by society for it, but you see the cafeteria Catholics enjoying all the benefits of Catholicism and being a darling in society.  Granted, there are important differences (it's not like the cafeteria Catholics in question want back in).  But still...  

[Evangetholic]

I can't think of another modern application, but reminds me of something else, and I do think Christians (Catholic and otherwise) do this. In the Gospels, notice the reaction of the Apostles every time some new person attempts to approach Jesus. With very few exceptions the Holy Apostles are standing there shooing the person away. Which of course isn't the same as taking a rigorist position on apostasy, I just think all of these things are the same species of behavior they make God small and mean.

 

The closest I can get to something like Donatism today probably is the picture of a "bad" Catholic trying to become a "good" Catholic. People underestimate the power of repentance and they underestimate God's personhood His ability as an independent agent to be where He wants to be, forgive who He wants to forgive, and to be in real, deep, personal, daily relationship with people who are a) currently effing up b) effed up badly in the past.

 

Which is of course not intended to  deny the "power" of sin or normative means of grace.

[Evangetholic]

Back a little later: I think it's kind of like people insist on this holiness (which is real), but reduce it to a hollow legalism that results in condemnation, unapproachable, and sacraments that have been negated because they could only work for nuns, priests, virgins, people with 97.8 kids, daily mass attenders, etc. I'm rambling.

[Evangetholic]

*unapproachability

[Gabriela]

Interesting conversation y'all have got goin' on in here... :-)