Southern Poverty Pimps

[Era Might]

Even Dr. King, especially by the end of his life, was further to the left than the black upper and middle classes. As for Malcolm, the man was a racist.

 

Malcolm wasn't a racist. The Nation of Islam, especially in its earlier days, was very strongly separatist and black nationalist, though it doesn't much do it justice to call it "racist." But especially toward the end of his life, Malcolm became more and more of an internationalist, and moved toward orthodox Islam. He was a hero for human rights.

[Evangetholic]

I beg to differ. NOI teaches and taught that white people are the spawn of the devil. This is racist.

[Autumn Dusk]

There was definitely a divide among blacks. MLK was the more middle class integrationist whereas Malcolm was about empowering black communities, including getting blacks to be the businesspeople in their own communities. Without a doubt the integrationists managed to forge political freedom for blacks, but perhaps Malcolm's vision still needs to be fleshed out.

 

The issue was, as evangoholic indicated, that the community, regardless of color, abandoned itself.

 

 

Even Dr. King, especially by the end of his life, was further to the left than the black upper and middle classes. As for Malcolm, the man was a racist.

 

Actually, wasn't Dr. King further to the right?  From my understanding he began to work on conservitve family values rather than just black causes.

 

Segregation forced families like mine, college educated, middle class, Catholic/Episcopalian/Presbyterian/Methodist, and (typically) lighter skinned to live in the same communities or at least move in the same milieu as poor blacks. We served as a kind of symbol of potential to achieve. With integration we more or less left "blackness" which then left poor, Baptist/Seventh Day Adventist/Pentecostal/Holiness, and (typically) dark skinned blacks to bear the entire burden of our historic oppression, but with neither our money, our talent, or our example being offered to help them rise. Integration actually came radically too soon for poor blacks, and the black elites disinterest was and is colossal (our interests do not rest with Lakeisha and Bobo from 'round the way).

 

While this was by color, I grew up in a town where this occurred by nationality...Italians, Irish and Polish all moved only in their own circles.  In the 70's when this was broken the poor became the elderly.   They are all dying off and often not counted in poverty numbers if they are in a state run facility.  The abandoment of community in the 70's is a major problem still affecting society today.

[Era Might]

I beg to differ. NOI teaches and taught that white people are the spawn of the devil. This is racist.

 

First, Malcolm left the NOI. Second, even the NOI moved toward orthodox Islam after Malcolm's death, until revived by Louis Farrakhan. Third, historical context is everything. To throw the word "racism" around in the context that the NOI was born, doesn't much do it justice, and creates a moral equivalence between it and the white racism it was born out of.

First, Malcolm left the NOI. Second, even the NOI moved toward orthodox Islam after Malcolm's death, until revived by Louis Farrakhan. Third, historical context is everything. To throw the word "racism" around in the context that the NOI was born, doesn't much do it justice, and creates a moral equivalence between it and the white racism it was born out of.

 

And fourth, I believe even Farrakhan and the modern NOI has softened its interpretation of the NOI's early theology of race.

[Evangetholic]

But it hasn't.

[KnightofChrist]

First, Malcolm left the NOI. Second, even the NOI moved toward orthodox Islam after Malcolm's death, until revived by Louis Farrakhan. Third, historical context is everything. To throw the word "racism" around in the context that the NOI was born, doesn't much do it justice, and creates a moral equivalence between it and the white racism it was born out of.

Today the NOI is a bigoted, racist, hate group.

[Evangetholic]

Today the NOI is a bigoted, racist, hate group.

 

lol Same as it always was.  Anyone interested can google "race" and NOI. Pay particular attention to statements on the Jews.

[Era Might]

Today the NOI is a bigoted, racist, hate group.

 

Overblown, ill-defined words.

[Evangetholic]

I consider King as having moved radically to the left:

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/longterm/mlk/legacy/legacy.htm

[KnightofChrist]

Overblown, ill-defined words.

You're in denial.


Farrakhan: How many of you are lawyers? Only have one in the house? No wonder we go to jail so much, brother! But at the top of the law profession, who are the top in law? Audience: Jews. Farrakhan: Sorry I didn't hear you. Audience: Jews! Farrakhan: Any doctors in the house? Ain't got no doctors? Oh there's one way in the back. At the top of the medical profession, the top in that are members of the Jewish community. Anybody in media? Who's the top in that field? Audience: Jews. Farrakhan: Anybody a rapper in the house? There's rappers. You can rap, ain't nothing wrong with that, but at the top of that are those that control the industry. Any of you have Hollywood ambitions, Broadway ambitions? Who's the top of that? Audience: Jews. Farrakhan: Same people! They're masters in business. Well I'm not a businessman I'm a banker. Well who's the master of the bankers? Audience: Jews. Farrakhan: TALK TO ME! Audience: Jews! Farrakhan: You don't discredit them because they're masters, you discredit them by the way they use their mastery. Audience: [applause] Farrakhan: Now, I close.

"All is Vanity" sermon at Mosque Maryam, Chicago 7/1/12
http://archive.adl.org/special_reports/farrakhan_own_words2/on_jews.asp

[Era Might]

You're in denial.


Farrakhan: How many of you are lawyers? Only have one in the house? No wonder we go to jail so much, brother! But at the top of the law profession, who are the top in law? Audience: Jews. Farrakhan: Sorry I didn't hear you. Audience: Jews! Farrakhan: Any doctors in the house? Ain't got no doctors? Oh there's one way in the back. At the top of the medical profession, the top in that are members of the Jewish community. Anybody in media? Who's the top in that field? Audience: Jews. Farrakhan: Anybody a rapper in the house? There's rappers. You can rap, ain't nothing wrong with that, but at the top of that are those that control the industry. Any of you have Hollywood ambitions, Broadway ambitions? Who's the top of that? Audience: Jews. Farrakhan: Same people! They're masters in business. Well I'm not a businessman I'm a banker. Well who's the master of the bankers? Audience: Jews. Farrakhan: TALK TO ME! Audience: Jews! Farrakhan: You don't discredit them because they're masters, you discredit them by the way they use their mastery. Audience: [applause] Farrakhan: Now, I close.

"All is Vanity" sermon at Mosque Maryam, Chicago 7/1/12
http://archive.adl.org/special_reports/farrakhan_own_words2/on_jews.asp

 

In denial about what? Do I have to discredit Christian saints who said some harsh things about Jews? I'm a believer in historical context.

[KnightofChrist]

In denial about what? Do I have to discredit Christian saints who said some harsh things about Jews? I'm a believer in historical context.

I see the classic "but these other guys do it too, so it's ok" argument.

[Evangetholic]

The saints (and popes) points and motivations are different than NOIs. NOI does a considerable amount of good in poor black communities, but and as a black person with a Jewish grandparent I feel uniquely qualified to say this, it comes with a tribalizing poison. Jews were the single most committed group of whites during the Civil Rights Movement era, why should they be subject to this angry black man's (who has a huge amount of European DNA like virtually all American blacks) abuse. He sounds like the Klan to me. He and his organization are despicable and embarrassing--they are not significantly different from the white "separatists" they so frequently make common cause with.

[Era Might]

I see the classic "but these other guys do it too, so it's ok" argument.

 

No, it's the "human movements are complicated, historical entities." I'm sure a random Farrakhan quote plays well on the Rush Limbaugh show, but I don't summarize or condemn groups based on a news bite clip. And if other historical groups are given leeway to evolve and develop, then I grant the same leeway to contemporary groups. America is forgiven and admired despite its racist past.

 

The evil meaning of [racism] is to exalt your race, to set at nought another race, and to deprive another human being of the intended prerequisite for life,  freedom, justice, and equality to advance your race. I am not that, I have never been that, I cannot become that, because when I become that I am not a racist I am a devil. ...You can't fault Jews for looking out for Jews, and you can't fault Italians and Irish people and Greeks and Polish people for looking out for themselves. You can't fault an African for looking out for himself...But if I'm going to look out for myself and then crush you in the name of looking out for myself then I have become a demon, I have become an enemy an opposer an opponent of the natural rights of human beings.

 

--Louis Farrakhan

 

Quote taken from the following speech:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VHWVkaaMhyo

[Era Might]

The saints (and popes) points and motivations are different than NOIs. NOI does a considerable amount of good in poor black communities, but and as a black person with a Jewish grandparent I feel uniquely qualified to say this, it comes with a tribalizing poison. Jews were the single most committed group of whites during the Civil Rights Movement era, why should they be subject to this angry black man's (who has a huge amount of European DNA like virtually all American blacks) abuse. He sounds like the Klan to me. He and his organization are despicable and embarrassing--they are not significantly different from the white "separatists" they so frequently make common cause with.

 

Among the various causes of Christian anti-Semitism was trying to explain why the Jews are an accursed people. Not very different from the origins of NOI racial theology, which was a way to try and explain why blacks found themselves in a society of systematic hatred and violence.