The Blessed Virgin's Guide To Modesty

[Lil Red]

GREAT article:

http://www.catholic.com/blog/michelle-arnold/the-blessed-virgins-guide-to-catholic-modesty

 

And who is the authority who is pressed into service to dictate modesty for Catholic women? The Blessed Virgin Mary. Google "Marian modesty" and you will get nearly ten million results, in which people purport to speak for the Blessed Virgin on what Catholic women these days should wear. The most well-known page on the subject modestly styles itself "The Marylike Standards for Modesty in Dress (as set down by the Vatican)." In this Guide to Modesty, our Blessed Mother, previously unknown to be a fashionista, speaks through an anonymous "cardinal vicar" during the reign of Pope Pius XI to declare among other things:

• "Marylike dresses have sleeves extending to the wrists; and skirts reaching the ankles."
• "Marylike dresses require full and loose coverage for the bodice, chest, shoulders, and back; the cut-out about the neck must not exceed 'two fingers breadth under the pit of the throat' and a similar breadth around the back of the neck."
• "Marylike dresses also do not admit as modest coverage transparent fabrics—laces, nets, organdy, nylons, etc.—unless sufficient backing is added. Fabrics such as laces, nets, organdy may be moderately used as trimmings only."

Don't bother looking for guidelines for modest pants for women because "the Blessed Virgin Mary will never approve of these pagan styles which are so contrary to Christian tradition on modesty."

But what might the real Blessed Virgin—as distinguished from the straw woman some Catholics have created in their own image—have to say about modesty? At Fatima, an apparition approved by the Church, our Lady is reported to have said, "Certain fashions will be introduced that will offend our Lord very much." Curiously, she is not very specific. She does not even distinguish between men's and women's fashions. Going on this dictum alone, she might have in mind men's saggy jeans, and not be commenting upon women's fashions at all.

 

.................

 

When it comes to Catholic modesty, especially when the Blessed Mother is pulled forward for her opinion and example, there often is a conflation of two different concepts: imitation and mimicry. Imitation is using someone or something as a model for one's own actions; mimicry is to attempt to create an external, superficial resemblance to something or someone else.

 

Too often in discussions of modesty, it seems that those advocating for using the Blessed Mother as a role model confuse mimicry with imitation. Perhaps that is why you sometimes hear then of Catholic women who don't cover their heads in church or elsewhere, or who choose to wear pants, or who do not cover every square inch from neck to toes, denounced as "immodest" for not following some perceived "Marian code of dress for Catholic women."

We are not called to be mimics of the Blessed Mother, dressing as would be appropriate for a first-century Palestinian peasant woman (e.g., long veils, skirts to the floor, sandals). We are called to imitate the Blessed Mother in her virtues. In terms of modesty, that might mean dressing in a way that is appropriate to one's culture and circumstances, not drawing undue attention to oneself either in one's dress or undress, remaining circumspect about one's own choices, and not denouncing the reasonable choices of others.

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Yes, I know.... modesty - Blessed Virgin Mary - pants - makeup discussion on phatmass tends to get out of control, but I thought this was a really great article. I've only quoted a part here, so go read the rest. :)

[EmilyAnn]

 

[FutureSister2009]

I really like that snippet about Tara Lipinski. I used to be obsessed with her when I was little and now I think I've just fallen in love with her all over again. Great article overall as well. I promote modesty every day anyway

[Autumn Dusk]

I find these very troubling.  This is the reason I was not allowed in a traditional church.  I was wearing nice slacks and a pretty 3/4 sleeve sweater  with a decent neckline.  I was told that it was not church appropriate atire.  In 99% of the churches in America, I would of been fine.

 

People tend to gravitate to extremes.   I for one, tend to gravitate towards the more charasimatic, come as you are.  I think the best order is the CFR's out of NYC.  They mix the charismatic nature with traditions such as Adoration.

I really like that snippet about Tara Lipinski. I used to be obsessed with her when I was little and now I think I've just fallen in love with her all over again. Great article overall as well. I promote modesty every day anyway

 

 

If you promote modesty....then you should change your profile picture.  Bare arms and deep neckline...definatly no where near the standard.  I bet you were wearing shorts, too.

[FutureSister2009]

 

 

If you promote modesty....then you should change your profile picture.  Bare arms and deep neckline...definatly no where near the standard.  I bet you were wearing shorts, too.

 

I was NOT wearing shorts. That is a dress and I will NOT change my profile picture because I am with my best friend Sr. Jessica. If it weren't for her, the desire for Religious Life would have never come to me. You really have a lot of nerve. It's none of your business.

[Autumn Dusk]

I go to an EFM mass where trousers are welcomed by most of the priests. It is just a few families who discourage it. Don't stereotype the who traditionalist movement as such. You aren't doing so here, but I have seen you do so in many other threads.

 

I do love the CM movements and the CFRs. But let's not turn this into a modesty or charismatic vs. traddie debate. PLEASE. 

(quote)

I find these very troubling.  This is the reason I was not allowed in a traditional church.  I was wearing nice slacks and a pretty 3/4 sleeve sweater  with a decent neckline.  I was told that it was not church appropriate atire.  In 99% of the churches in

If you promote modesty....then you should change your profile picture.  Bare arms and deep neckline...definatly no where near the standard.  I bet you were wearing shorts, too.

 (quote)

 

 I really don't think she was promoting those guidelines. Just the general virtue of Christian modesty. Personal attacks aren't very appropriate.

 

First, perhaps it's my area, but the churches that offer TLM do not allow women without skirts and head coverings to enter.  They post the sign by the door and in the bullitian.  It's not just "one bad experience ...it's several and pretty much the mode of operation.  It's a bit different down in Boston proper, but in the 50 mi radius, it gets pretty rough. I used to do alot with a young adult group and many of them were more traditional and wanted to go to Mass together.  I sat outside because I refused to wear a long skirt to appease some radical. Men must have button up shirts and cannot be wearing jeans.  They as that you remove your coat, too.

 

It wasn't a personal attack, I'm just saying that she should put her money where her mouth is.  People promote modesty but then don't follow it in the least.  Atleast the traditionals all practiced what they preached.

I was NOT wearing shorts. That is a dress and I will NOT change my profile picture because I am with my best friend Sr. Jessica. If it weren't for her, the desire for Religious Life would have never come to me. You really have a lot of nerve. It's none of your business.

 

I won't apologize.  You are stating one thing and showing another.  My point is that you are cheering for something which you don't practice.  I do have nerve...to point out a fallacy I see.

[Debra Little]

i love my jeans and tshirts

[Autumn Dusk]

i love my jeans and tshirts

 

I wish I could prop this!  :bananarap:

[Debra Little]

I wish I could prop this!  :bananarap:

 

what does that mean?

I wish I could prop this!  :bananarap:

 

jeans and tshirts are all i own and i cannot afford to buy clothes.  i barely have enough to make it

through the month.  God is concerned about my heart, not my jeans and tshirts

[Lil Red]

i love my jeans and tshirts

 

:) me too.

[Autumn Dusk]

what does that mean?

 

 

Proping is when you "like" a post.  Right now you're bearing a "physhy" tag so I can't prop what you say, nor can you prop what I say.  It's rather rotter, but it's the rules.

 

jeans and tshirts are all i own and i cannot afford to buy clothes.  i barely have enough to make it

through the month.  God is concerned about my heart, not my jeans and tshirts

 

Can you contact the St. Vinnie's or local Salvation army?  They usually give away clothes to people in need.  I have the opposite problem...I can't afford to wash my clothes.  A load at the laundramat can cost upwards of $10 PER load. (and a small one at that) At that price I'm almost better off buying cheap new clothes, especially undergarments.

[GeorgiiMichael]

WTF just happened in this thread...

 

EDIT: BEST FIDDLER EVER, OH WOW, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT ONE EXISTED

Edited February 19, 2013 by GeorgiiMichael

[Autumn Dusk]

WTF just happened in this thread...

 

EDIT: BEST FIDDLER EVER, OH WOW, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT ONE EXISTED

 

what were you trying to write (missspell it)

[GeorgiiMichael]

what were you trying to write (missspell it)

 

I'll let you figure it out yourself. The clues are all there.

[Lil Red]

WTF just happened in this thread...

 

EDIT: BEST FIDDLER EVER, OH WOW, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT ONE EXISTED

 

:hehe: :hehe: i :love: that one.