I Talked To A Priest Today

[Evangetholic]

If you followed me and my brothers Apotheoun and Nihil's regrettable takeover of our redoubtable sister Empress Marie's Syllabus of Errors thread then you saw me be talked into a most curious appreciation for Papal claims in face of dissent to the same from the Melkite Patriarch and some number of Christ's faithful who are under his care. I resolved to speak to a priest about perhaps returning to the Catholic Church (despite my disagreement with the Catholic Church on AUTHORITY). His response was "I cannot deny you the Sacraments if you believe what the Catholic Church believes about them, but I would advise you to pray and study until Easter, before seeking them."  I find this response confusing (I was baptized and confirmed as a Catholic and am certainly less heretical and have less moral issues than many others who belong to the parish in question). He plainly said that he'd hear my confession and give me communion whenever I asked, but still encourages this pray until Easter thing.  Someone give me some insight into these things. 

[GeorgiiMichael]

Well, as you've received the sacraments of initiation, you are canonically able to receive the Eucharist, and the sacrament of reconciliation (confession) is also open to anyone who has received the initiation sacraments. He is also asking you to refrain from receiving the sacraments  until you believe in them, which makes sense. 

 

His request that you hold back from receiving the sacraments until Easter after you've done lots of prayer seems to me to be a wise choice in your discernment. While (if you believe in the sacraments and if you've received absolution via confession) you are in communion with the Church, you aren't in full communion if you do not hold all that the Church teaches to be true. In your case, that would be the Church's position on Her Authority. Until such a time as you can agree on matters of Authority it seems as though your priest feels that it would be best for you to abstain from at least the sacrament of the Eucharist. 

 

Prayer and patience never go amiss. 

 

Pax, brother.

[Nihil Obstat]

I think his response makes a lot of sense. :) It puts you in a tight spot, as a Catholic, to have major disagreements, even if they are few in number. If you spend the time until Easter in serious study, and perhaps go to Confession several times, then you will have an even clearer idea of what it means to accept the Church and receive the Eucharist.

I will help, if you would like, in any way I am able to do so.

[Evangetholic]

Thank you both for your responses. I am working way through various issues: 1) I do not see in scripture or in tradition before the medieval period the claims of universal Papal Authority 2) Orthodox recognition of Papal primacy absent any practical meaning or usefulness to this doctrine (that I've yet come across) is unsatisfying 3) I'm not really convinced that tradition speaks about very much with a unified voice. 4) And I'm certain you all will be shocked at this peculiar discovery, Protestantism despite its best attempts, looks, feels, and sounds gravely different than the Ancient Credal Christianity it seeks to restore; so now I guess what is happening to me is that I'm trying to figure out whether Catholicism, Orthodoxy, or God forbid Oriental Orthodoxy are uniquely true.

 

They all disatisfy me. Catholicism seems a bit too doctrinally haughty, too sure of itself in the face pf what seemsto be an  absence of support from Scripture and the Fathers about the Papacy and various other things. Orthodox on the other hand seems like a confusing collection of ethnic/nationalistic local Catholicisms--and the language it uses, and the words it chooses, seem even more distant from what I have understood to be true than Catholicism. 

[Nihil Obstat]

I agree that Roman Catholicism is a bit doctrinally haughty, as you put it. :smile3: I think that is a consequence of the almost exclusive focus on Scholastic philosophy, with its proofs and rigour. I appreciate Eastern Christian mysticism for its own unique aspects that IMO enlighten and lend perspective to Scholasticism.

[Evangetholic]

Well doctrinal hauteur is not solely the failing of Catholicism, read Calvin some time.

[MissyP89]

I would like to gently toss out that you are not expected to be perfect when you do make that leap. I was away from the Church for a few years (well, in truth I never really KNEW my faith until my return). When I made that first confession upon returning I was still pro-abortion, pro-gay marriage, pro-birth control, not sure I believed in the Resurrection, suffering addictions, etc etc.

 

But I knew the Eucharist was the true Body of Christ, and I knew that Catholicism did make sense in so many other ways. I wasn't perfect, but I wanted to be there. I wanted to try.

 

When you say the Act of Contrition at the end of confession, it includes that you intend to try harder and do your best. If you can say those words with honestly, with a truly open heart and mind, then I think you will be OK.

 

We're supposed to work out our salvation with fear and trembling, right?

 

Ask yourself three questions:

 

1) Can I recite the Creed with a clear conscience?

2) If I go back to the Church, can I honestly work toward accepting what we believe with an open heart?

3) Will I stick to my decision even in times of doubt and struggle?

 

I think the private answers in your heart to those three will give you a pretty solid answer.

 

Take your time. You don't have to rush this. God certainly has all the time in the world. Pray and research and struggle and question and learn. When you are ready, the Church will be here. And even if you're not ready, she will still be here. 

 

Peace be with you.

[BG45]

What Missy said.  Entirely what Missy said.  I denied myself a chance to convert, partially (as she can attest to), because I did wait until I had finished all those struggles with disagreements.  (That and I'm a scaredy cat when it comes to major life changes.)

 

At the same time, it was a good decision, because it gave me a chance to answer those three questions.  Anyhow, just my two cents and of course, my prayers for you as you discern things!

[Evangetholic]

Two bizarre events this morning (well three).

 

1. I talked to my Anglican priest today about the fact that my conscience can no longer endure the moral/doctrinal confusion in the Episcopal Church and the fact that our Presiding "Bishop" (Supreme Canonical authority for American Anglicans) is a woman. He said that he is only staying in the Episcopal Church to save a "remnant" for the Lord Jesus and that he could not in good conscience advise any person to stay in the Episcopal Church. I've heard opinions like this before, but never from this man.

 

2. My mother says that she, my brothers, and my stepfather are prepared to follow me into which ever church I join. This is a bizarre added bit of responsibility I do not wish to bear.

 

3. The godly hipsteress I'd very much like to bear my children and make me all kinds of assorted sammiches today confessed that she rather likes my face and my cold, patronizing, inexpressive, consciously Victorian manner.

Edited February 16, 2013 by Evangetholic

[Nihil Obstat]

I am seriously impressed by the way. :P We mentioned "you should ask a priest about this", and the very next day you went and talked to a priest. Most people do not have that sort of willingness to do whatever needs to be done.

[Evangetholic]

Bah, don't be too excited. Eastern Orthodoxy is starting to make more sense.

[Evangetholic]

Bah, don't be too excited. Eastern Orthodoxy is starting to make more sense.

 

And then I realize that they claim Papal primacy, but deny things that would seem to almost naturally flow from that primacy and further claim infallibility but provide me with no practical way that infallibility could/would be exercised by the modern church and further still I'm not inclined to apologize for and repent of my Western perspective as if it is some innovative heresy.

[MIKolbe]

Someone said sammiches?

[Evangetholic]

Of course. Sammiches are what I seek. Knew I how to make a sammich for myself I would consider being being a "Eunuch" for the sake of the Kingdom--no, not really.

[LouisvilleFan]

I resolved to speak to a priest about perhaps returning to the Catholic Church (despite my disagreement with the Catholic Church on AUTHORITY). His response was "I cannot deny you the Sacraments if you believe what the Catholic Church believes about them, but I would advise you to pray and study until Easter, before seeking them."  I find this response confusing (I was baptized and confirmed as a Catholic and am certainly less heretical and have less moral issues than many others who belong to the parish in question). He plainly said that he'd hear my confession and give me communion whenever I asked, but still encourages this pray until Easter thing.  Someone give me some insight into these things. 

 

Sounds like Christ is giving you an excellent opportunity to come to terms with authority. Think about things from the pastor's perspective: you're probably not the first person to approach him during Lent about coming back into the Church. If he's a good pastor, he's interested in discerning that these seeds of faith have fallen on good soil. If you pray about this decision over several weeks and you're still serious about reconciliation at Easter, both you and him have a little more reason to believe they're in good soil.

 

As for the other parisioners, remember the prodigal son's brother. He was more faithful in a lot of ways, but the father threw a party for the sinner who repented. We can be like both brothers at the same time.