"the Catholic Church Can’t Change." The Washington Post

[Evangetholic]

The part that gays are trying to make it everyone's business. 

 

It is a mortal sin to engage in homosexuality, therefore no matter how much "equality" they scream for, it is certain their household is absent of God, the teachings, etc.

 

Wrong is wrong. What is that saying, oh yeah, you can't make a wrong a right.

 

If this the teaching of the Catholic Church then fear of God means I may not come into communion with her. Someone please clarify.

[Maggyie]

this attitude does not reflect the teaching of the Catholic Church. Please consult a good orthodox priest to cure you of your heterodoxy.

 

 

 

What is accepted is not acceptable.

 

Up until the AIDS awareness of the 80's, being gay was as it should be, shunned, kept quiet, etc.

[4588686]

You really are the court jester of this forum aren't you?

 

 

Maybes.  

 

What your sexual preference is, is none of anyone's business. When you attempt to elevate your choice in life to defy God's natural law and normalize it, then it is a big deal. When it is being taught to 5 year olds in government schools, it is an issue. When you are in Disneyland and it is overtaken by "Gay Days" with the most flamboyant behavior in clear view of children, babies and adults, it is an issue.

 

There is no God.  You beliefs are unfounded.  Nobody hears you prayers.  :)

 

When people like yourself, victims of the college indoctrination process, believe that not only shouldn't there be any public or moral opposition to this immoral behavior, but it should be embraced otherwise that person is simply an idiot, homophobe [place other dismissive phrasings here].

 

I was never taught that in college.  It doesn't take a formal education.  It takes a modicum of intelligence and a bare minimum of human decency.  

 

I do not care what you do. You like to sleep with sheep, that is your problem. And that is the issue, keep it your problem. Do not ask me to pay for your "dependent," do not attempt to historically change persons of history to give credibility to your dysfunction. 

 

And as I have said from the very beginning of this insane move to full immorality, one cannot prevent a person who identifies as bi-sexual to demand they can marry from both sexes to fulfill their new, government deemed "right." Heck, now we have 3 "parents" on birth certificate in Florida.

 

The next real step here, because you can't have any opposition, is what former Mayor Newsom attempted to do, ban the Bible. You have to, it clearly states this behavior is prohibited. And now you have the "Queen James" bible which just rewrites it to make being gay ok.

 

 

This perversion, gay normalization, is perverting all of society at its will, without any care of what damage it is doing to the family, the faith, to the natural order. And of course, without care to God.

 

Get your bells on...

 

 

Well, the important fact to emerge from this is that we now all know that you are a repressed homosexual.  

[Evangetholic]

I cannot speak to the teachings of Catholicism regarding homosexuality as I'm not aware of them, but I will say that treating Gay people as if they are guilty of the "worst" sin, a sign of the impending doom of Western Civilization, and generally fit for all manner of verbal, spiritual, and physical abuse is calumniation of the holiness of God and worries me far more than whether or not "Evan" and "Scott" believe that there's some good to their midnight wrestles.

[StMichael]

The Catholic Church does not teach to humiliate, degrade a person who is homosexual, the actual act of homosexuality is a mortal sin and is condemned.

 

Those with homosexual tendencies are called to be chaste.

 

Furthermore, the exact teaching, via the Vatican's site (Catechism of the Catholic Church) 

 

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

 

"2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,¹⁴¹ tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."¹⁴² They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved." - (emphasis mine).

 

 

 

I cannot speak to the teachings of Catholicism regarding homosexuality as I'm not aware of them, but I will say that treating Gay people as if they are guilty of the "worst" sin, a sign of the impending doom of Western Civilization, and generally fit for all manner of verbal, spiritual, and physical abuse is calumniation of the holiness of God and worries me far more than whether or not "Evan" and "Scott" believe that there's some good to their midnight wrestles.

 

[Lilllabettt]

Maybes.  

 

I was never taught that in college.  It doesn't take a formal education.  It takes a modicum of intelligence and a bare minimum of human decency. 

 

 

Your human potential has not reached fullest expression. You will get closer  to it when you can acknowledge that intelligent, decent people may examine the evidence and come to different conclusions than your own. Not evidence about which Nicholas Sparks is the best ever - evidence about that which you most devoutly believe. (e.g., there is no God, gay marriage should be legal, etc.)

[4588686]

Your human potential has not reached fullest expression. You will get closer  to it when you can acknowledge that intelligent, decent people may examine the evidence and come to different conclusions than your own. Not evidence about which Nicholas Sparks is the best ever - evidence about that which you most devoutly believe. (e.g., there is no God, gay marriage should be legal, etc.)

 

 

Yeah.  I do understand that.  You're probably smarter than me and likely a better person.  I am being hyperbolic because I don't think much of StMichael and was taunting him.  I do think that denying marriage rights to gay couples is a moral failure.  At least for younger people.  Sorry.  That one I'm not giving on.  I have plenty of moral failings.  A number of them have been documented on here.  But there is no reason outside of religious revelation to discriminate against gay couples. People only get one life.  If you unnecessarily mess with another person's one life for nothing more substantive that a religious hope then I think that you are really doing the wrong thing.  I understand that there are other views on that but I think those views are incorrect and I have yet to see any substantive justification other than 'well, that's what the Church teaches.'  

[Evangetholic]

The Catholic Church does not teach to humiliate, degrade a person who is homosexual, the actual act of homosexuality is a mortal sin and is condemned.

 

Those with homosexual tendencies are called to be chaste.

 

Furthermore, the exact teaching, via the Vatican's site (Catechism of the Catholic Church) 

 

http://www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p3s2c2a6.htm

 

"2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity,¹⁴¹ tradition has always declared that "homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered."¹⁴² They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved." - (emphasis mine).

 

You consider your various statements as being in agreement with the following and with love of neighbor?

 

2358 The number of men and women who have
deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination,
which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.
They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every
sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These
persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are
Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the
difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
 

Edited February 17, 2013 by Evangetholic

[Lilllabettt]

I'll admit that a justification for opposing gay marriage sans appeal to tradition or religious belief does not easily present itself - and very few people will argue it. I have seen it done with some effectiveness, however. For example - there is one which proposes that state acknowledgement of any marriage or domestic arrangement is essentially a non right - and then goes on to say that nevertheless the promotion of heterosexual marriage is a compelling state interest which for that reason may be justly privileged by legal acknowledgment -- that acknowledgment remaining a temporal privilege, not a natural right that is "due."

 

I don't know if you read French. But if you do a google translate of the French newspapers you'll see that they have a more diverse opposition to legalized gay marriage.  Here in America it is religious rightists with the largest microphone. But the French have communists, union leaders, entertainment people, gay activists etc. who oppose it, all with their own reasons.

[StMichael]

Absolutely.

 

Lets not confuse discrimination with promoting a moral sin.

 

It comes down to hate the sin, not the sinner. 

 

 

You consider your various statements as being in agreement with the following and with love of neighbor?

 

2358 The number of men and women who have
deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination,
which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial.
They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every
sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These
persons are called to fulfill God's will in their lives and, if they are
Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord's Cross the
difficulties they may encounter from their condition.
 

 

[Maggyie]

St Michael, this is what you said:

 

Up until the AIDS awareness of the 80's, being gay was as it should be,
shunned, kept quiet, etc. There was a respect for the true natural order
of life. When AIDS hit, with the quilts, etc. it became ok, we pray for
you, you don't have to hide, we want to help, etc. That then became,
and from many parents of gays, lets change culture to not only except
this choice, but elevate it.

 

So you think homosexuals should be shunned, kept quiet like a dirty secret, they should have to "hide," and that it's wrong to pray for gay people or people who have fallen ill with AIDS, or to want to help them. This is "as it should be" according to you.

 

That is a heretical attitude.

[Evangetholic]

Absolutely.

 

Lets not confuse discrimination with promoting a moral sin.

 

It comes down to hate the sin, not the sinner. 

 

No. I don't quite think that's it. I think you, like many Christians, have fallen into an uncharitable and inflexible hardness of heart. I think based on your posts here and in various other threads that you are most likely an unkind man and that the number of walls you've thrown up between human beings and God via your neo-Conservative ramblings is probably unfathomable. I said it on the other thread we interacted on and now I must say it again: Jesus Christ, Almighty God, is Sovereign King of the Universe, not some republican poster boy for every mean-spirited, rude, loud, right wing cause on the earth. Gay people are made in God's image. I have no problem calling homosexual behavior a very grave sin, but not nearly as grave as you brandishing your irrational, flat-earth, John Birch Society ravings as if they came from God. Your way of communicating on this site, and I suspect in life, harms the work of reconciling a damned and dying  World to the Cross.

Edited February 17, 2013 by Evangetholic

[StMichael]

Like all mortal sins, they are done in darkness. They do not have parades. They do not dare believe they have the right to infringe on society, not to forgive their sins, but elevate them to super class citizens. It is the faithful that are now second class citizens. That said.

 

We are taught to be charitable, not to the point of conceding our faith. Yes, we are to pray for them, to give them strength to be chaste, not assist them in carrying out a mortal sin.

 

I see no reason for your taking exception with what I posted. There is a clear, historical line, whereby, pre-AIDS and post-AIDS that homosexual behaviors have gone from the shadows to demanding normalization at the expense of society.  

 

 

St Michael, this is what you said:

 

 

So you think homosexuals should be shunned, kept quiet like a dirty secret, they should have to "hide," and that it's wrong to pray for gay people or people who have fallen ill with AIDS, or to want to help them. This is "as it should be" according to you.

 

That is a heretical attitude.

 

[add]

No. I don't quite think that's it. I think you, like many Christians, have fallen into an uncharitable and inflexible hardness of heart. I think based on your posts here and in various other threads that you are most likely an unkind man and that the number of walls you've thrown up between human beings and God via your neo-Conservative ramblings is probably unfathomable. I said it on the other thread we interacted on and now I must say it again: Jesus Christ, Almighty God, is Sovereign King of the Universe, not some republican poster boy for every mean-spirited, rude, loud, right wing cause on the earth. Gay people are made in God's image. I have no problem calling homosexual behavior a very grave sin, but not nearly as grave as you brandishing your irrational, flat-earth, John Birch Society ravings as if they came from God. Your way of communicating on this site, and I suspect in life, harms the work of reconciling a damned and dying World to the Cross.

All I can say to that is practice what you Preach, brother

[Evangetholic]

All I can say to that is practice what you Preach, brother

 

And what are you on about?