Pope Benedict Resigning

[KnightofChrist]

Like I said, you're skipping words.

What words would you like me to address?

[Winchester]

What words would you like me to address?

All of them, obviously.

[KnightofChrist]

All of them, obviously.

I only addressed the parts I took issue with, ie redefining the papacy. There's no need for this regardless of what else was stated. Edited February 15, 2013 by KnightofChrist

[Winchester]

I only addressed the parts I took issue with, ie redefining the papacy. There's no need for this regardless of what else was stated.

Except that isn't what q said.

[KnightofChrist]

Except that isn't what q said.

But I do not share that opinion. The statement that Benedict is " redefining how the papacy will be viewed and understood by the Church henceforth" is a problemo. Popes, cardinals, bishops and priests shouldn't be forever redefining their offices or how the Church understands their offices, only passing on what they were given without change, without redefining forever or henceforth the Church's understanding of what they were given. The Church's understanding of the papacy doesn't need to be redefined to adapt to the modern world. Better explained but not changed or redefined. Redefined wasn't the correct term to use, it implies the meaning of something changes, not that the meaning is better explained. The latter would be in light of tradition the former would be novelty and a break with tradition.

[Winchester]

But I do not share that opinion. The statement that Benedict is " redefining how the papacy will be viewed and understood by the Church henceforth" is a problemo. Popes, cardinals, bishops and priests shouldn't be forever redefining their offices or how the Church understands their offices, only passing on what they were given without change, without redefining forever or henceforth the Church's understanding of what they were given. The Church's understanding of the papacy doesn't need to be redefined to adapt to the modern world. Better explained but not changed or redefined. Redefined wasn't the correct term to use, it implies the meaning of something changes, not that the meaning is better explained. The latter would be in light of tradition the former would be novelty and a break with tradition.

In viewing something differently, it is not the thing which changes, but us.

[franciscanheart]

Too bad. Redefining something changes what it was into something else, not what it was but something new. That is novelty not tradition. The Pope has always been a monarch, that should not change, abdication should be very rare and only for grave reasons.

I don't understand how this changes that. Also, your opinion about when a Pope should resign doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. According to Canon Law, the only requirements for validity are that he "make the resignation freely and that it be duly manifested, but not that it be accepted by anyone" and nothing else.

[Apotheoun]

Pope Benedict - for good or ill -resigned, it is time to let him fade into obscurity.

[Winchester]

Or maybe accept that he is in the best position of all to know whether the decision was wise, or not, and remember the good things he did.

[Apotheoun]

Or maybe accept that he is in the best position of all to know whether the decision was wise, or not, and remember the good things he did.

Actually the only one who is in a good position to know the full consequences of our choices - good or bad - is God. Nevertheless, the pope has resigned and it is time to move on.

[Winchester]

Actually the only one who is in a good position to know the full consequences of our choices - good or bad - is God. Nevertheless, the pope has resigned and it is time to move on.

God is not in a position.

[KnightofChrist]

I don't understand how this changes that. Also, your opinion about when a Pope should resign doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. According to Canon Law, the only requirements for validity are that he "make the resignation freely and that it be duly manifested, but not that it be accepted by anyone" and nothing else.

It does mean something in the grand sheme of things. The Canon doesnt make it ok for a pope to resign just because he doesnt feel like being pope anymore. If future popes can just resign like a C.E.O. of a corporation or president it will reduce and bring great harm to the power of the papacy and the papacy itself. The Pope is not a CEO, or a president. He is the Pope, the Vicar of Christ, a holy monarch. He is meant to hold the office for the rest of his life unless there is some grave reason for him to resign. I believe this Pope has resigned for grave reasons. But Benedict's resignation has unintentionally caused great sorrow, shock and confusion throughout the Catholic world. For the sake of the Church the resignation of popes must remain as it has been, very very rare and only for grave reasons. The Church shouldn't have to suffer this kind of heartbreak again for a very long time. Far to much is a stake the office of the papacy holds far too much responsibility for the salvation of souls to be given up for reasons that are not grave and for this type of thing to become typical. The papacy shouldn't be redefined to fit into the modern world it if anything should stand in contrast to the world.

In viewing something differently, it is not the thing which changes, but us.

But what was stated was redefining the Church's understanding of the papacy.

[Winchester]

Maybe grave reasons will become more common.

[KnightofChrist]

Maybe grave reasons will become more common.

Hopefully not. Hopefully the tradition of popes being pope for life will continue to be honored rather than it being thrown away as outdated. I understand the reasoning of resigning because age has caused grave health problems, but old age alone isn't enough justification. After all many popes of the pass lived to a old age, dying as Pope, despite primitive medical treatments and health problems.

[Winchester]

Hopefully not. Hopefully the tradition of popes being pope for life will continue to be honored rather than it being thrown away as outdated. I understand the reasoning of resigning because age has caused grave health problems, but old age alone isn't enough justification. After all many popes of the pass lived to a old age, dying as Pope, despite primitive medical treatments and health problems.

If I handed you a glass of water, you'd probably go off about the evils of liquor.