Eorhodox And Salvaton

[dairygirl4u2c]

ty

[Basilisa Marie]

Not my place to say. 

[Evangetholic]

My, Evangelical/Reformed/Catholic, understanding of the Gospel does not admit the possibility of those who truly faith (as a verb) Christ going to hell. This is not to claim that doctrine is irrelevant, merely that a good father does not cast a son or daughter into endless and unquenchable fire. And we have the very best of Fathers, the very best of Brothers, and are the dwelling place of the very best Spirit--capable they are of making dead men live, so why not capable of saving those who believe in them, eh?

I did not vote as I'm a heretic.

[Apotheoun]

The Eastern Orthodox (and the Oriental Orthodox) are Catholic, so why would they go to hell? The one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church exists wherever the Eucharist is celebrated and the orthodox faith professed under the presidency of a bishop in Apostolic Succession.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Apotheoun

[Groo the Wanderer]

Eeyore is Orthodox?  (eorhodox is not a term I have ever seen used before)

 

and none can speak to the likelihood of any person being in hell. Even the Church in all her wisdom has never claimed any particular person to be in or likely to be in hell.  tis folly. not much of a debate or question here, deary.

 

 

lets talk about receiving on the tongue again

Edited February 11, 2013 by Groo the Wanderer

[Nihil Obstat]

Eeyore is Orthodox?  (eorhodox is not a term I have ever seen used before)

 

and none can speak to the likelihood of any person being in hell. Even the Church in all her wisdom has never claimed any particular person to be in or likely to be in hell.  tis folly. not much of a debate or question here, deary.

 

 

lets talk about receiving on the tongue again

There is a fair bit of speculation, if I am not mistaken, that the rich man who was condemned because he failed to help Lazarus was actually a real person rather than a parable. Since in no other parable does Jesus provide actual names for anyone involved.

[Tab'le De'Bah-Rye]

My, Evangelical/Reformed/Catholic, understanding of the Gospel does not admit the possibility of those who truly faith (as a verb) Christ going to hell. This is not to claim that doctrine is irrelevant, merely that a good father does not cast a son or daughter into endless and unquenchable fire. And we have the very best of Fathers, the very best of Brothers, and are the dwelling place of the very best Spirit--capable they are of making dead men live, so why not capable of saving those who believe in them, eh?

I did not vote as I'm a heretic.

 

how are you a heretic ? I agree, we pray for all souls to goto heaven in the fatima prayer. Whether they do or not is up to The LORD and not for me to say. Jesus states many blasphemies will be forgiven except the blasphemy against the holy spirit. And i know what the current chatechism says that is and i know what the old latin rites says (and there are several sins against the holy spirit in the latin rite.) And than theres what i think it may be. If anyone would like to know what i think it may be let me know. It has something to do with when Jesus said "better for such a man to have a boulder tied to his kneck and cast into the middle of the ocean.", i assume so that the man can not rise and lays dormant for eternity in the middle of the ocean which is pretty bad but better than hell. Read the holy gospels to find out more i guess. But than anything is possible to GOD right even forgiving such a person if they where to be willing to reconcile,repent and do penance. I would give such a person a life time of holy mass more than just sunday without communion and daily rosary, And perhaps some charity work weekly. But than i am not a priest nore anyone of standing or perhaps even understanding.

Edited February 11, 2013 by Tab'le Du'Bah-Rye

[dairygirl4u2c]

i dont know why theres so much "we cant know" stuff. it;s not like im naming names where thatd be more relevat.

its like... "do people who as conversant as can be n catholic teaching go to hell if they fornicate, murder, steal, etc:?

 

i suppose an ultimate truth is the person should be doing what they know is wrong.... but this isnt nessarily a requirement n catholic teaching.

since when do we stop calling a spade a spade?

at least 1 person voted the what seems sentiment of the church

 

Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino (1441): "The most Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that none of those existing outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics, can have a share in life eternal; but that they will go into the "eternal fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41), unless before death they are joined with Her; and that so important is the unity of this ecclesiastical body that only those remaining within this unity can profit by the sacraments of the Church unto salvation, and they alone can receive an eternal recompense for their fasts, their almsgivings, their other works of Christian piety and the duties of a Christian soldier. No one, let his almsgiving be as great as it may, no one, even if he pour out his blood for the Name of Christ, can be saved, unless he remain within the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church."

 

Pope Boniface VIII, Bull Unam sanctam (1302): "We are compelled in virtue of our faith to believe and maintain that there is only one holy Catholic Church, and that one is apostolic. This we firmly believe and profess without qualification. Outside this Church there is no salvation and no remission of sins, ....We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

 

itd have been interesting had i made it about murder fornication etc too as a comparison

[Apotheoun]

Eastern Orthodox (and the Oriental Orthodox too) are already Catholic  No need to worry about them going to hell as a group.

[dairygirl4u2c]

does the catholic church agree with u apo that eastern O are catholic? i mean sure with a little c... but with a beg C as is what matters?

me doubts they do

[Apotheoun]

does the catholic church agree with u apo that eastern O are catholic? i mean sure with a little c... but with a beg C as is what matters?

me doubts they do

In the CDF document Communionis Notio the Roman Church's Curia teaches that the one Catholic Church is made present wherever the Eucharist is validly celebrated.

[dairygirl4u2c]

they might be just part of the modern era. to me no salvation to noncatholics was the rule... yet modernists say its possible for nons to be saved.

itd seem perhaps when they limited in the past they limited even from orthodox... "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely necessary
for the salvation of every human creature to be subject to the Roman Pontiff."

 

an orthodox could say theyd be open to him being head of church in a "first among equals" way. but im not sure that gets to the real meaning of being subject to him

[Apotheoun]

they might be just part of the modern era. to me no salvation to noncatholics was the rule... yet modernists say its possible for nons to be saved.

It all gets down to how you define being Catholic.  Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox are Catholic.  The Churches of the East are apostolically founded and some are even older than the Church of Rome.

So to reiterate what I have said before:  The one Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church is made present wherever the Eucharist is validly celebrated and the orthodox faith is professed under the presidency of a bishop in apostolic succession.

[dairygirl4u2c]

id tend to say it comes down to more whether u believe n the pope or  not... as to whether an orthdox could be culpable for being so knowledgeable of the RCC yet not RCatholic.

rigorists would say Catholic is a plain meaning word, at least w the quote i provided limited it to those subject to the pope.

at that point ud have to argue... "welll i dont believe the pope is infallible anyway so who care what he says"

 

(perhaps what :subject to" the pope means is an issue but thats stretching it from plain meaning

Edited February 15, 2013 by dairygirl4u2c

[dairygirl4u2c]

i guess my question kind of presupposes the lenient understaning of no salvation outisde the RCC, as it talks about knowledge and cupability, something only a modernist would consider. so if we're accepting modern ideas anyway, the CDF document and roman curia could be said to be very authoritative.

 

there's still rigorist understandings tho, that would prob say the orthodox are damned for not being subject to the pope.