Prof Problem... What Would You Do?

[OnlySunshine]

At the end of the day, some professors are just really bad at teaching, or worse, are just really nasty people. :P And sometimes they have reached a point in their careers where they are essentially untouchable. I have had one professor like that before, for statistics. Awful person. No respect for students, mocked students during and outside of class, actively looked for reasons to fail people, etc.. Nothing really to do about it, because he has tenure and he does some pretty cutting-edge work in statistics. So I just dealt with him and then reminded myself never to take another one of his courses again.

 

The funny thing is that I did the same but I inevitably was forced to take another class with the professor since she is the only one who teaches the class I need.  :hehe2:

Edited February 7, 2013 by MaterMisericordiae

[Nihil Obstat]

The funny thing is that I did the same but I inevitably was forced to take another class with the professor since she is the only one who teaches the class I need.  :hehe2:

Yeah, it gets tricky when your other options are limited. I know there are a few professors I have had who, if I did not like them I would have been in big trouble. :P Luckily I did, because they are great people.

[Gabriela]

I'm both a (grad) student and a teacher (of undergrads), and I've had a few courses in higher ed as well as quite a bit of experience dealing with university administrators. Here's my advice:

 

 

 

1. Just deal with it, it's not my problem that others are in the same situation.

No, absolutely not. Professors like this need to be held accountable for their teaching, regardless of how awesome their research is. But getting them to be held accountable can be tricky...

 

1. Try to talk to the prof and ask him to change his method.

Absolutely effing not. Don't even think about it. Even a super-friendly professor will think it presumptuous and impertinent if a student—who has never taught or run a classroom—comes around telling him how to do his job. That would be the reaction of any professional to the "feedback" of any outsider to his profession. But in academia, egos are HUGE. I mean GINORMOUS. Even if your professor seems like a really amenable guy, don't go this route.

 

I know that the Christian thing to do is take your complaint to the person against whom you have the complaint. But I assure you, in this case, that would not achieve the desired effect, and would very likely land you in hell for the next 4 years. If you have any doubts on religious grounds about the advice I'm giving you, run it by your priest/SD.

 

1. Talk to the higher-ups

Yes. The question is: Who? Don't go to the department head. Departments fight over money from the university admin, so department heads will defend their faculty to the death to keep their funding. Anyway, the department head already knows the guy's teaching sucks. Why does he let him keep teaching? Because he doesn't care.

 

If your university does not have student evaluations of teaching (SETs), then that does not bode well for you. If they did, I would advise that you organize with your classmates to state your complaints very charitably (not polemically or in an angry or exaggerated fashion) on the SETs. Even make kind, gentle suggestions for how the prof could improve, what you needed that you didn't get, what you think would have helped, etc. The tone of a SET is key to its positive reception. Students who rail against the prof in their evaluation just get ignored: Clearly they have an ax to grind. It's the temperate, moderate criticisms offered with charity that—when aggregated across many students—make a real difference.

 

But, you have no SETs. So: If your university has an undergraduate ombudsperson (and if it's a large state university, then it probably does), go to her first. (They're usually women.) An ombudsperson is bound to as much confidentiality as a priest (even more than a psychologist—she couldn't betray you even in a court of law), and they understand the delicacy of academic egos and the quagmire that is academic politics. If you go to her with multiple other students (or, even better, arrange separate meetings), she will know how to do something about it, and I assure you, she will do it better than you. That is her job. It may take a while, but she'll be on it. Just be sure to be calm and charitable in these meetings, too, and make sure to keep requesting meetings until the problem is solved (I'd say one a semester, per student willing to meet with her).

 

If you have no ombudsperson, then go to the Dean of Undergraduate Students. Do not go to anyone in the department (not the department head, as I've already urged, but ALSO not to your academic advisor, director of undergraduate studies, or whoever else). Keep it out of the department. In your meeting with the Dean, be calm and charitable. You have CONCERNS, not COMPLAINTS. ;-) Get your classmates to go as well, and explain the importance of not hurling invective. You will be dismissed if you do.

 

1. Get more students to come forward

Yes. Probably, this will be more effective if you go separately than if you go together. If you do the latter, the ombudsperson/administrator is likely to think it's a gang attack, or that peer pressure is involved, or that the prof is just a really hard grader and you're all a bunch of whiners, or whatever. If you go separately, and don't mention that you've told/asked others to come, it will look like the problem is so bad that many students feel compelled to come forward independently. (Of course, if asked whether you've talked to other students about it, don't lie. Just only offer info about your "organizing" on an as-requested basis.)

 

1. Rally all and hold a public manifestation

I actually would, but only after trying all of the things I've recommended, and waiting at least two years (with at least one meeting a semester with ombudsperson/administrator to "remind" them that the problem is still there). Academia is slow to change (especially in the larger universities). If it does come to a demonstration, do NOT name names. Just publicly decry "low teaching standards" at the university. If you've done all of the above already, the administrators will know perfectly well who you're talking about.

 

1. Send anonymous death threats

That would feel REALLY good, wouldn't it? ;-)

 

1.  Other

See above. If there's anything else I can do to help, quote my post so I get an email, or PM me.

 

POWER TO STUDENTS!!!

[missionseeker]

I actually had a problem similar to yours last semester.  One of my distance learning professors wasn't answering emails or phone calls and I (and other students) were having major problems with the homework.  Towards the end of the semester, I finally decided to contact the higher ups and let them know what was going on.  One of them was helpful but the department head never got back to me.  I figured they did something but weren't able to tell me because of confidentiality.  Now, ironically, I had to take the same professor again this semester because they were the only one teaching a course that I need for my major.  :twitch:  The professor got a little better but they are still not answering emails as quickly as they should for a distance learning course.

 

 

Same thing happened to my sister. Turned out that the professor had spent the last few weeks in a Russian hospital after contracting the flu and then pneumonia. Then her mother died.

 

So it's not always a great idea to assume there's no reason. Sometimes there is, but I mean, sometimes we have to be a little flexible too.  

[Winchester]

I would tell him how to teach, and go above his head.

[carmenchristi]

I'm both a (grad) student and a teacher (of undergrads), and I've had a few courses in higher ed as well as quite a bit of experience dealing with university administrators. Here's my advice:

• Just deal with it, it's not my problem that others are in the same situation.

No, absolutely not. Professors like this need to be held accountable for their teaching, regardless of how awesome their research is. But getting them to be held accountable can be tricky...

• Try to talk to the prof and ask him to change his method.

Absolutely effing not. Don't even think about it. Even a super-friendly professor will think it presumptuous and impertinent if a student—who has never taught or run a classroom—comes around telling him how to do his job. That would be the reaction of any professional to the "feedback" of any outsider to his profession. But in academia, egos are HUGE. I mean GINORMOUS. Even if your professor seems like a really amenable guy, don't go this route.

I know that the Christian thing to do is take your complaint to the person against whom you have the complaint. But I assure you, in this case, that would not achieve the desired effect, and would very likely land you in hell for the next 4 years. If you have any doubts on religious grounds about the advice I'm giving you, run it by your priest/SD.

• Talk to the higher-ups

Yes. The question is: Who? Don't go to the department head. Departments fight over money from the university admin, so department heads will defend their faculty to the death to keep their funding. Anyway, the department head already knows the guy's teaching sucks. Why does he let him keep teaching? Because he doesn't care.

If your university does not have student evaluations of teaching (SETs), then that does not bode well for you. If they did, I would advise that you organize with your classmates to state your complaints very charitably (not polemically or in an angry or exaggerated fashion) on the SETs. Even make kind, gentle suggestions for how the prof could improve, what you needed that you didn't get, what you think would have helped, etc. The tone of a SET is key to its positive reception. Students who rail against the prof in their evaluation just get ignored: Clearly they have an ax to grind. It's the temperate, moderate criticisms offered with charity that—when aggregated across many students—make a real difference.

But, you have no SETs. So: If your university has an undergraduate ombudsperson (and if it's a large state university, then it probably does), go to her first. (They're usually women.) An ombudsperson is bound to as much confidentiality as a priest (even more than a psychologist—she couldn't betray you even in a court of law), and they understand the delicacy of academic egos and the quagmire that is academic politics. If you go to her with multiple other students (or, even better, arrange separate meetings), she will know how to do something about it, and I assure you, she will do it better than you. That is her job. It may take a while, but she'll be on it. Just be sure to be calm and charitable in these meetings, too, and make sure to keep requesting meetings until the problem is solved (I'd say one a semester, per student willing to meet with her).

If you have no ombudsperson, then go to the Dean of Undergraduate Students. Do not go to anyone in the department (not the department head, as I've already urged, but ALSO not to your academic advisor, director of undergraduate studies, or whoever else). Keep it out of the department. In your meeting with the Dean, be calm and charitable. You have CONCERNS, not COMPLAINTS. ;-) Get your classmates to go as well, and explain the importance of not hurling invective. You will be dismissed if you do.

• Get more students to come forward

Yes. Probably, this will be more effective if you go separately than if you go together. If you do the latter, the ombudsperson/administrator is likely to think it's a gang attack, or that peer pressure is involved, or that the prof is just a really hard grader and you're all a bunch of whiners, or whatever. If you go separately, and don't mention that you've told/asked others to come, it will look like the problem is so bad that many students feel compelled to come forward independently. (Of course, if asked whether you've talked to other students about it, don't lie. Just only offer info about your "organizing" on an as-requested basis.)

• Rally all and hold a public manifestation

I actually would, but only after trying all of the things I've recommended, and waiting at least two years (with at least one meeting a semester with ombudsperson/administrator to "remind" them that the problem is still there). Academia is slow to change (especially in the larger universities). If it does come to a demonstration, do NOT name names. Just publicly decry "low teaching standards" at the university. If you've done all of the above already, the administrators will know perfectly well who you're talking about.

• Send anonymous death threats

That would feel REALLY good, wouldn't it? ;-)

• Other

See above. If there's anything else I can do to help, quote my post so I get an email, or PM me.

POWER TO STUDENTS!!!

You have some really good suggestions, with good reasoning behind them.
About talking to the prof., I still haven't ruled it out because the lessons- as I mentioned- are individual, so I could kind of direct my comments at myself like "you know my friend helped me out a lot by drawing diagrams and making me a numbered list and being very specific. Since I'm stupid and can't learn without these, do you think you could humor me and help me out like this?" That seems innocuous enough. I doubt it will have any effect though because the guy is one of those brilliant minds that has no idea how to communicate his knowledge. I don't actually think he is ABLE to make his lessons schematic. That jumble in his head makes sense to him. That's great for him... Not so great for me.

So I could try it just as a fair step before going higher up. But I'm pretty sure it won't be effective. Also, I have gone to him nearly in tears already telling him that one homework assignment (that should take an hour or two) regularly takes me a minimum of 5 hours and that I need a solution. No effect. Though at that time I had no suggestions as to what kind of solution.

So here's the glitch, if I talk to him first and then go to the dean (he's the next up after the department head since its a really small university) he will probably guess it was me.

As some have mentioned, I too do not believe in being a tattle tale, especially without talking to the person first. But I wonder if an informal conversation with the dean might be helpful. Perhaps he could at least allow me to be tutored by another professor without having to bother other students and be at the mercy of whether or not they have time to help me. Maybe he could help me find a neutral solution to MY problem, not necessarily having to take action Against that professor who is generally a nice guy, but just can't teach and is really sensitive about it. I think I'm leaning toward this solution.

[carmenchristi]

I love counterpoint. :love:
.

Would you like to take the exam for me? I'd like that. And when we're done with that, you can take the Fugue exam for me too. :love:

[Papist]

I would tell him how to teach, and go above his head.

 

But get drunk first, right?

[Winchester]

But get drunk first, right?

Optional.

[Basilisa Marie]

If you don't have course evals, I'd start getting the student body to lobby for anonymous course evals. They're really, really important.  It's not just about complaining about cruddy teachers.  It's also about giving feedback to the wonderful, inspiring teachers.  Or giving clarification about a course - the whole class getting As but learning nothing versus the class being a mix of As to Cs but everyone learning ALL THE THINGS, etc. If professors map out "course objectives" for learning in the syllabus, the evals help the good profs say "see? look! I taught X, Y, and Z, and students learned X, Y, and Z! They said so!"  

 

Do what exactly curiousing said.  Spot on. 

[franciscanheart]

Optional.

But highly recommended.

[cmaD2006]

CarmenChristi:

 

a) remember that there may be the great cultural divide at play too ... what may be appropriate in the US may not be appropriate elsewhere, so from that regard tread lightly.

b) Go to him to get help, talk to him (i.e. about the material).  After a while then maybe tell him about his teaching style.  Maybe.  I agree with what someone said -- the guy may be BRILLIANT but HORRIBLE at teaching.  Besides if he is willing to help you one-on-one you may end up with a really good colleague/friend in the long run.

c) plan on paying for a tutor.  Period.

 

I had a really, really, really bad professor at an Ivy League School for a Junior level course.  Horrible prof.  All over the place with respect to how he taught -- I couldn't follow him at all.  I tried dropping the class but my academic advisor said "you have to take the course, you're not flunking so get through it regardless.  Just pass."  And he did talk to the prof one-on-one.  As far as me -- eh, I barely understood it.  But I passed it.  And understood it enough to do a senior thesis in the same area (and ace the thesis).

 

Not sure if this helped :) but I tried!

[carmenchristi]

Thank you all for the replies. I'm realizing that the situation is a bit too complicated to continue with a back and forth of explanations. I do appreciate the input and have decided on a course of action. Thanks all!

[Honour]

Tell him, everyone needs feedback. Be nice, if it persists and its that big of a problem then take it up the chain, but don't assume he is aware of the flaws and unwilling to change...give him a chance to fix it.

[Winchester]

It's the same thing as if you get food you don't like in a restaurant. Tell him if he doesn't straighten up, you'll talk to his manager, and maybe fill out an unfavorable comment card.