Would You "cross The Pond" For Your Vocation?

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

My family would probably freak out, but it wouldn't be out of the question. I just think it would be really hard to discern and visit unless you had the money for quite a few overseas flights.

 

But I'd be open to it. Somewhat.

[organwerke]

Personally I wouldn't discern an order who is completely in another continent.

But I've  known a sister of an Italian order who did know her order only through mail (she lived thousands of miles away) and she entered without even knowing a single sister nor the language and she is now happily finally professed from many years!

So, if you wonder if it is something possible, I think yes, it is surely something that can be done!

BTW: about your questions, if you feel attracted from an order oversea, I suggest you to ponder which are the positive aspects and the negative ones, and then to decide if you could do this. I don't think you should blame yourself if you feel attracted from a far order (there can be many good  reasons for you to feel this attraction), but simply to ask yourself if this attraction is stronger than your fears. If the answer is yes, so you could contemplate the idea. If, instead, you feel too scared at the idea of discerning so far, I don't think you should force yourself to do so.

Consider that, after all, in my opinion a person decides to enter the place that has the biggest attraction, and that gives the biggest peace. So, if, for example, exchanging some letters with the nuns, you feel these feelings, you should give it a chance.

This is my simple opinion.

[organwerke]

Sorry double post

 

Edited February 6, 2013 by organwerke

[HisAlone]

Thank you all for your wisdom and insights.  I really appreciate the scope of thought on VS.

It's sooooooooooooo easy to see something only one way until you are blessed to see it through someone else's eyes. :)

 

[cmaD2006]

Personally I wouldn't discern an order who is completely in another continent.
 

 

I had to  laugh .... :).  Why?  Ask me 10 years ago, and my answer would have been ______ no to the idea of moving to another country to enter.

 

I made that decision -- I don't regret it, even though the experience was brutal (it was a problem with the community not with the culture/country).  I entered a community that was NOT in the US.

 

I don't think it is for everyone (as you said organwerke), however if it is what you are led to then you really need to follow through.  For me the chance to live outside of my country gave me the immigrant's perspective, one that I did not have and has been very helpful in dealing with the immigrant population at Church.  It gave me a whole lot more compassion.

[savvy]

 

I have lived oversees and speak four languages, when I learn French it will be five. 

 

I want to evangelise in Europe and pray for the return to Christianity there. Religious are so needed there, and I personally relate much better to European cultures than to the US culture.

 

Hey, me too. I have no idea why God led me to a French community, after several English speaking ones. I just gave up looking and was praying, Lord lead me to the place where you want me.

 

 

[Eowyn]

Yes, I would consider it.  Whether it happens or not is in God's hands.

[MarieLynn]

I voted yes, because that is exactly what I did, - many years ago!

 

The order that I was once part of, had their postulant house in Melbourne and their novitiate in Sydney, Australia.    We NZ girls, and those from the  Pacific Islands,  were required to go to Australia to enter.      

 

When you are 17, it is a huge step going away to another country, but we all did it, and gladly.    Unfortunately many of the non- Australian postulants soon succumbed to homesickness, and eventually left, so the order decided that for the first 6 months, the postulant could remain in her own country, and was only required to go to Australia to complete the final part of the postulancy period, and her 2yrs in the novitiate.    How's that for forward thinking?

  

 

 

[cmaD2006]

I thought as much.  Thank you for the confirmation. 

What happens re residency in another country if one does 'cross the pond' - is a temporary visa granted say for a few years before one applies for permanent residency if one decides that the community is indeed one's vocation?

 

As others have said it really, really depends on the country and community.

 

 

In my case -- I entered on a tourist visa, and made sure that the community did the appropriate paperwork for the resident visa.  I was given the visa without any real hassles.  The biggest hassle was actually making sure that the community did what they needed to.

 

 

Case in point -- a fellow postulant (who left almost when I did) was from a different country.  She didn't get on the community's case about her visa expiring.  Well it did -- and the community did not do her paperwork.  When she left and try to cross the boarder into her country, she had to pay a fine because her visa expired -- and a stranger had to pick up the fee (she only had enough to get home).

 

 

I however, being so overly sensitive to visa issues (because of the whole immigration issue here in the US), gave an ultimatum to the community when my visa had 2 days left.  I said "or you fix my paperwork, or I get on the plane to return to the US because I'm NOT going to stay in the country illegally when I have no reason to." (I had a return ticket for the day that the visa would expire).  Needless to say (at the time they still wanted me in the community) they got the paperwork started and once the paperwork is filed then I was considered legally still in the country.

 

 

What was said is true w.r.t. the return home (if needed) -- when I entered I made sure that I had sufficient funds/credit to go home with.  I needed those funds, and a bit more.

Edited February 8, 2013 by cmariadiaz

[BarbTherese]

Thank you.  It does strike me as very important that one becomes conversant with visa issues right at the start if one should be discerning a community overseas - and from your response, that one ensures that the community involved is prepared to do their part if one should enter a community overseas.  What I would be doing at the beginning of discernment is contacting the Dept of Immigration and becoming thoroughly conversant with the whole issue of entering a religious order overseas - in fact, I would have a contact/contact point in the department for any questions that may arise.  Any leadership of a community ideally would be sensitive to the notion that if one overstays one's visa one is in illegal status and an offense and perhaps a criminal offense.

I thought that a return ticket to ensure that one is back home prior to any visa expiring might be a good move and to alert the community involved to this fact.  Ideally, this would be a refundable or transferable ticket, if such exists.

There is certainly a fair bit to investigate and a really good move to have a thread where questions can be answered for those who might be considering 'crossing the pond'.

  At this point, I dont even have a passport :) nor a vocation to religious life :)  Yet all things are possible to God and the story of Zachary and Elizabeth HERE illustrates that sometimes He does do the seemingly impossible even at a mature age when one can feel that the major details of one's life are pretty much already stated. 

[cmaD2006]

Stuff in italics from BarbaraTherese (sorry ... I tried doing my usual cut and paste but the browser isn't cooperating).

 

It does strike me as very important that one becomes conversant with visa issues right at the start if one should be discerning a community overseas - and from your response, that one ensures that the community involved is prepared to do their part if one should enter a community overseas.  ....

Any leadership of a community ideally would be sensitive to the notion that if one overstays one's visa one is in illegal status and an offense and perhaps a criminal offense.

 

The interesting thing is that each country is sooooo different.  I remember looking up the visa details ahead of time, and just saying "ok -- not worrying about it, I'll let the community work on it" because I suspected that it didn't exactly work as stated.  I was right (case in point -- I went to Bolivia, and what was on the website about the 5 year tourist visa and what actually happened when I got to the border were TWO different things).

 

I thought that a return ticket to ensure that one is back home prior to any visa expiring might be a good move and to alert the community involved to this fact.  Ideally, this would be a refundable or transferable ticket, if such exists.

 

Actually a lot of times in order to get the tourist visa you may need proof of your return (i.e. a returning ticket).  Since a round trip ticket is 99% cheaper (especially international) than a one way that is usually the way to go.

 

I'm not a typical candidate -- I am a go-getter, assertive, independent gal who has been surviving on her own for YEARS.  So yep -- I did some homework, and was a "pain" when it came to the visa.  I mean think about it this way -- I'm from the US, and in the US I was able to support myself without any issues.  I have a career.  Well educated.  No reason to leave the US other than for a religious vocation.  So -- WHY would I want to stay illegally in a country that is not my own, and not be able to depend on myself and be totally dependent on a community that hasn't done my paperwork? (That's why I was quite point-blank about not overstaying my visa.)

 

I should have at that point taken it as a sign of what was to come ... I didn't.  Actually even after the paperwork was started things were going ok(for another 3 months!).  Things went south as soon as I resigned from the leave of absence my job gave me.

[BarbTherese]

Thank you once again.  Your posts certainly underscore how important it is to do all the homework before 'crossing the pond' - and important issues to raise I think for those that may be considering this move.  I recall the problems that nunsense had re Carmel Wolverhampton in the UK and I really admired just how serenely she seemed to move through the various problems of 'crossing the pond', trusting in God all the way.  She is in my daily prayers.

[EmilyAnn]

As a little light-hearted note, one sister I know is American but is in a community here. When she came to England to enter, the immigration officials asked her how long she planned on staying in the country and she replied "forever". Apparently they didn't take that answer very well. :hehe: 

[maximillion]

^^^^^

 

Re the above.

This is why it is essential to have the correct documentation and 'papers' showing the reason for your arrival and proposed long stay.

Most countries have a clause in their immigration law stating that immigration for reason of religious service etc is acceptable  but this MUST be backed up by clear documentation on headed paper from the relevant community, must mention you by full name, and state the reason for your stay.

In the initial stages, stating 'forever' may be a statement of intent, but would be a little foolhardy. A document that states your entry for reason of joining the community usually gets a neutral response and no further enquiry.

 

This is even more important when joining a community with an apostolate  since some sisters do paid work and if the authorities think you might be trying to slip in by the back door and get paid work then you will have problems.

 

in addition, in the UK at least there was a bit of a scandal about 35/40 years ago with young women being brought here ( some against their will) to enter with failing communities, and some who came and left the community after a very short time and drifted into illegal alien status.

The UK immigration have very long memories! 

Edited February 10, 2013 by maximillion

[TheLordsSouljah]

Well, at the moment I'm planning on crossing 16,000 kms across a pretty ridiculously big pond to NY... Makes you wonder exactly what entailed 'Follow Me'.... Especially when the entire known world was only a little more than central Europe... Pretty sure I was born in Aus for a reason though. Would love to be an instrument in bringing more faithful sisters back to my religious-life-is-rare stricken homeland. Ahh, Lord help us..