An Applebee's Diner Refused To Leave A Tip For Religious Reasons

[4588686]

Here's my problem with the standard 15-20% tip:

Lets say my family and I go out for a meal. We are at the restaraunt for an hour from the time take our seats, place our orders and leave the restaraunt. We order $100 in food/drinks/sales tax for 6 people, which in my city would be a standard or even low price. Now a 20% tip is $20 bucks. We were there for an hour and were served for an hour. Let's even split it and say the waiter gets $15 and the bus boy gets $5. My family of 6 just paid the waiter a rate of $15 an hour for taking our orders, delivering our food, and stopping at our table 2-3 times after food was delivered (once to see how the food is, another to offer deserts, another to drop the bill). $15 an hour is twice as much as what the guy at walmart makes, and that's assuming I'm the only table the waiter is running. Sure maybe an hour is too short a time, but if we buy alcohol instead of soda then that bill jumps to $125. If we buy desert it jumps to $150 and the tip jumps with it.

I just went out for dinner on Saturday night and between 6 people the bill was around $115, and that wasn't including 2 beers we paid for at the bar counter. We were at the table for an hour and a half, and a lot of that was because it took a long time to get food.


I'm not saying waiters make big bucks (although I know restaraunts in town where the waiter brings home $400 in tips every night over the summer). What I'm saying is the wage I ought to pay them as a standard is big bucks for the service they provide me.

There are time when a restaraunt is dead slow and the waiter is making piddly because he has one table in 2 hrs. That's not my problem, and my wages paid to the waiter are not intended to compensate for the slow times at the restaraunt, they are intended to pay for the service the waiter provided me.

I don't agree with not tipping, but 20% is an awful lot of money on a $100 bill for an hour of service especially since I'm not the only table the waiter potentially has. I don't have the full undivided attention of the waiter (nor do I want it). Say the waiter spends 20 minutes on my table and I tip $20 bucks (15 for waiter 5 for busser). Now that's $15 for 20 min service which comes to $45 an hour!

(edited a bit)

Yeah. You don't want them to get uppity. Why should they get a decent wage when Walmart employees get paid poverty wages? We should really model all of our employment policies around what Walmart does. The important thing is to crush their spirits so they don't start feeling entitled to basic human dignity.

[Nihil Obstat]

That's minimal tipping.  You're what's called a "Canadian".

I can confirm that somewhat lower tips are standard in Canada.

[Winchester]

Here's my problem with the standard 15-20% tip:

 

Lets say my family and I go out for a meal. We are at the restaraunt for an hour from the time take our seats, place our orders and leave the restaraunt. We order $100 in food/drinks/sales tax for 6 people, which in my city would be a standard or even low price. Now a 20% tip is $20 bucks. We were there for an hour and were served for an hour. Let's even split it and say the waiter gets $15 and the bus boy gets $5. My family of 6 just paid the waiter a rate of $15 an hour for taking our orders, delivering our food, and stopping at our table 2-3 times after food was delivered (once to see how the food is, another to offer deserts, another to drop the bill). $15 an hour is twice as much as what the guy at walmart makes, and that's assuming I'm the only table the waiter is running. Sure maybe an hour is too short a time, but if we buy alcohol instead of soda then that bill jumps to $125. If we buy desert it jumps to $150 and the tip jumps with it.

 

I just went out for dinner on Saturday night and between 6 people the bill was around $115, and that wasn't including 2 beers we paid for at the bar counter. We were at the table for an hour and a half, and a lot of that was because it took a long time to get food.

I'm not saying waiters make big bucks (although I know restaraunts in town where the waiter brings home $400 in tips every night over the summer). What I'm saying is the wage I ought to pay them as a standard is big bucks for the service they provide me.

 

There are time when a restaraunt is dead slow and the waiter is making piddly because he has one table in 2 hrs. That's not my problem, and my wages paid to the waiter are not intended to compensate for the slow times at the restaraunt, they are intended to pay for the service the waiter provided me.

 

I don't agree with not tipping, but 20% is an awful lot of money on a $100 bill for an hour of service especially since I'm not the only table the waiter potentially has. I don't have the full undivided attention of the waiter (nor do I want it). Say the waiter spends 20 minutes on my table and I tip $20 bucks (15 for waiter 5 for busser). Now that's $15 for 20 min service which comes to $45 an hour!

 

(edited a bit)

 

Then cook at home.

 

[Autumn Dusk]

Yeah. You don't want them to get uppity. Why should they get a decent wage when Walmart employees get paid poverty wages? We should really model all of our employment policies around what Walmart does. The important thing is to crush their spirits so they don't start feeling entitled to basic human dignity.

 

 

I'm with Slappo.

 

Atleast waitresses and waiters are paid per hour and not expected to work uncompensated overtime.  Retail, even besides walmart is horrible.  I worked as a retail, not walmart, manager at a respected company for 4 years.  I was "supposed" to be making $14 an hour.  But if you calculated how much I worked in a year (you have 260 work days) by the average of how many hours I worked in a week..55 on a good one 70 on a bad one...then my wage per hour was more like $9.  With no chance of tips, always on my feet, always dealing with customers, and expected to make a couple mil in buying decisions with minimal errors. I was also expected to use my car with the government standard mileage reimbursement (35 cents) and no mind I was moving extremely heavy things (we're not talking pizzas).  I was expected to carry my cell phone at all times and have text functions which the company did not pay for.  Not to mention I had automatic deductions that I didn't get an option for because of being full time, like health care (that did nothing) and SSI.  I was taxed for my full income....so my real, working wage was something like $5 per hour. Tips notoriously under-reported to the IRS, making the tax rate lower.  No one tipped me, no one gave me any extras.  While $3.50 is less, if I worked 60+ hours as a waitress, I'd of been better off.

 

Point being...most jobs stink.

 

People always feel shafted.  I give 15% on bills, on top of tax.  I have no clue why tipping has turned to 20%.  It's just not right, unless the server is spectacular.  Maybe for some high end place but for Applebees?  Seriously?  If the waitress acts snarky because I order water then he or she gets 10%.  I don't like sweet drinks, and if I'm driving I can't drink alcohol.  If he or she is nice I'll order a dessert or an appetizer, even if I don't really want it, just to boost up their sales.

 

I don't eat out often.  So all you waitstaff can relax

[4588686]

I'm with Slappo.

Atleast waitresses and waiters are paid per hour and not expected to work uncompensated overtime. Retail, even besides walmart is horrible. I worked as a retail, not walmart, manager at a respected company for 4 years. I was "supposed" to be making $14 an hour. But if you calculated how much I worked in a year (you have 260 work days) by the average of how many hours I worked in a week..55 on a good one 70 on a bad one...then my wage per hour was more like $9. With no chance of tips, always on my feet, always dealing with customers, and expected to make a couple mil in buying decisions with minimal errors. I was also expected to use my car with the government standard mileage reimbursement (35 cents) and no mind I was moving extremely heavy things (we're not talking pizzas). I was expected to carry my cell phone at all times and have text functions which the company did not pay for. Not to mention I had automatic deductions that I didn't get an option for because of being full time, like health care (that did nothing) and SSI. I was taxed for my full income....so my real, working wage was something like $5 per hour. Tips notoriously under-reported to the IRS, making the tax rate lower. No one tipped me, no one gave me any extras. While $3.50 is less, if I worked 60+ hours as a waitress, I'd of been better off.

Point being...most jobs stink.

People always feel shafted. I give 15% on bills, on top of tax. I have no clue why tipping has turned to 20%. It's just not right, unless the server is spectacular. Maybe for some high end place but for Applebees? Seriously? If the waitress acts snarky because I order water then he or she gets 10%. I don't like sweet drinks, and if I'm driving I can't drink alcohol. If he or she is nice I'll order a dessert or an appetizer, even if I don't really want it, just to boost up their sales.

I don't eat out often. So all you waitstaff can relax

I'm not waitstaff. I work a second job at Kohls. I am well aware that retail jobs are awful. I'm about to leave to work from10om-6am. But what you've offered is nothing but schadenfreude. You have a bad job so other people also should be treated like crap. That's really beautiful. Waitstaff shouldn't be at the mercy of whether a customer is in a bad mood. Even people who want to pretend that the 18th and 19th centuries didn't happen and that capitalism is not inherently exploitative of workers can agree that waitstaff get a crappy deal. They can't negotiate a service in return for a predetermined tip. They are left to guess what a customer wants, operating within the matrix of company policies and guidelines, and then are given pay based on how closely that approximates what the customer actually wanted, how able the are to tip, and how generous they are feeling.

Actually, I agree with you. The free market works. If wait staff don't like their income depending on the generosity their patrons at any given moment in time they can just go and get a better paying job. Problem solved!

[Winchester]

People who want to pretend mercantilism didn't give way to neo-mercantilism?

 

Who are they?

[Norseman82]

I worked at Denny's when I was in college. Some jerk regularly came in and gave no tip, always writing on the check instead, "Great shall be your reward in Heaven."

 

That server's post touched on so many labor issues we need to resolve...

 

I also went to college on a "Denny's scholarship", so to speak.  At the time, and I don't know if it is still true, the law assumed that your tips were at least 8% of the customers' check (I think that was part of the 1983 tax law changes).

Edited February 5, 2013 by Norseman82

[eagle_eye222001]

Here's my problem with the standard 15-20% tip:

 

Lets say my family and I go out for a meal. We are at the restaraunt for an hour from the time take our seats, place our orders and leave the restaraunt. We order $100 in food/drinks/sales tax for 6 people, which in my city would be a standard or even low price. Now a 20% tip is $20 bucks. We were there for an hour and were served for an hour. Let's even split it and say the waiter gets $15 and the bus boy gets $5. My family of 6 just paid the waiter a rate of $15 an hour for taking our orders, delivering our food, and stopping at our table 2-3 times after food was delivered (once to see how the food is, another to offer deserts, another to drop the bill). $15 an hour is twice as much as what the guy at walmart makes, and that's assuming I'm the only table the waiter is running. Sure maybe an hour is too short a time, but if we buy alcohol instead of soda then that bill jumps to $125. If we buy desert it jumps to $150 and the tip jumps with it.

 

I just went out for dinner on Saturday night and between 6 people the bill was around $115, and that wasn't including 2 beers we paid for at the bar counter. We were at the table for an hour and a half, and a lot of that was because it took a long time to get food.

I'm not saying waiters make big bucks (although I know restaraunts in town where the waiter brings home $400 in tips every night over the summer). What I'm saying is the wage I ought to pay them as a standard is big bucks for the service they provide me.

 

There are time when a restaraunt is dead slow and the waiter is making piddly because he has one table in 2 hrs. That's not my problem, and my wages paid to the waiter are not intended to compensate for the slow times at the restaraunt, they are intended to pay for the service the waiter provided me.

 

I don't agree with not tipping, but 20% is an awful lot of money on a $100 bill for an hour of service especially since I'm not the only table the waiter potentially has. I don't have the full undivided attention of the waiter (nor do I want it). Say the waiter spends 20 minutes on my table and I tip $20 bucks (15 for waiter 5 for busser). Now that's $15 for 20 min service which comes to $45 an hour!

 

(edited a bit)

 

 

 

 

You need to wait tables at a restaurant.......work evenings.....holidays....weekends.....take customer orders......stand on your feet for hours on end............clean bathrooms......sweep/mop the floor........roll silverware......greet customers.....sell them products.....resolve  customer conflict.......listen to the managers sermon on the customer god and the worker devil.......etc....and then deal with those customers that just use you......

 

If you can't afford 20% on the dollar that you spend at the restaurant, then you can't afford to go out.

 

See, you need to apply your logic to grass cutting.  How much does it cost to mow 1/4 acre lawn or so?  It's about $30ish.  It takes someone about 30 minutes to do that type of job.  So, according to you, that person should instead get like $10.....after all $20/hr is a lot, right?  It's not your fault that the grass cutting season is sporadic.....there's winter where a grass cutter makes nothing....he makes nothing when the grass doesn't grow.....if it rains half the week, it's not your fault the lawn guy nearly kills himself catching up.  It's not your fault he has to drive to your place and then back.  It's not your fault he has to buy machinery worth hundreds and thousands of dollars and maintain it much less transport it.

 

btw- I know most lawn care people do more than lawn cutting, but for the sake of argument, my point is that you can't cut grass all the time.  Just like most people eat at dinner time, grass only gets cut when its dry out and during the day.

 

My point is this is about opportunity cost.  I have waited tables for nearly 3 years.  I will tell you now.  If I only made minimum wage doing that, I would have quit a lot earlier, and switched to something easier where I could sit on my but, not deal with the idiot customers (many are!) and make minimum wage.....and get all my weekends and evenings back.

 

Because waiting tables is not worth minimum wage.  No one would wait tables....that's way to MUCH cow poo to deal with for $5-$7 when you ruin your evenings/weekends etc and then people decide that you already make enough so we'll save money and screw the server......

 

Btw- ordering desserts, alcohol etc is not negligible   Those items often mean extra trips and more times at the computer punching in the additional order.  It means you guys don't clear out of my booth for another 10+ minutes.  It means I now have to go by the bar which may not be exactly on my way.  With all those extra items, are items I have to be familiar with in case the customer asks questions.  Servers are a line of quality control.  We have to be familiar with what the kitchen gives us and make sure its up to spec. Sometimes, we even make it!  More desserts, mean more dishes, and a slightly bigger mess.  More alcohol means more liability as we have to check for ID and make sure we don't serve someone to the point of drunkenness.

 

Servers make the big bucks because that is what makes it worth it.  If I didn't make the money I did while waiting tables, many more tables would have gotten worse service......as I simply wouldn't put in the effort.  And I wouldn't work weekends, or evenings when people want to eat.

 

I know you think $45/hr is a massive wage.  You are right.  It is.  But it most restaurant scenarios, it is unsustainable.

 

Servers cannot get jobs working only the dinner rush.  Typically, you have to work from 4ish to 10 ish and often later.  If I only made 10%, I would say SCREW IT and do something that doesn't destroy my evenings.  But because I made the money I would end the night with making a few dollars over minimum wage which made it worthwhile.  Making 10% on the bill for all the tables is not worth it.

 

So at the end of the day, you do pay for the slowness factor.  You pay for making me deal with cleaning bathrooms, rolling silverware, and putting up with the massive customer idiocy.  Because if I don't make that huge bonus during the dinner rush, it frankly isn't worth it.  You think it's a scam.  I have worked there.  And its justified.

 

10% is an insult tip (on an average table order with normal reasonable service).....and it always comes from those who haven't been there.

 

Oh....and the server hates it as much as you when it takes forever for the kitchen to get food out.  Severs make money by turning tables over quickly....in out in out in out ....that is how you make money.  Except we get all the crap....from you AND the kitchen when we tell them to go faster.  In the restaurant industry, once you get behind, you NEVER catch up until people stop coming.  God help you too when an order gets messed up and it's busy. :rolleyes:

 

I would like you to do a test trial for me.  The next 10 times you go out to eat, tell the server beforehand you only tip 10% max because they already make enough.  Explain to them your logic of how they make enough.  See what kind of service you get.  Because I can guarantee, that if I knew with certainty that the most I could get off a table was 10%, I would put that table on low priority and not trip over myself making sure everything was up to parr.  And if I had a choice, you wouldn't even sit in my section because frankly, you're not worth it.

[Groo the Wanderer]

I can confirm that somewhat lower tips are standard in Canada.

so are somewhat lower IQs, but hey

[Roamin Catholic]

You need to wait tables at a restaurant.......work evenings.....holidays....weekends.....take customer orders......stand on your feet for hours on end............clean bathrooms......sweep/mop the floor........roll silverware......greet customers.....sell them products.....resolve  customer conflict.......listen to the managers sermon on the customer god and the worker devil.......etc....and then deal with those customers that just use you......

 

If you can't afford 20% on the dollar that you spend at the restaurant, then you can't afford to go out.

 

Yea, minus the waiting a table and rolling silverware; what you described is common place for most people in retail. 

 

I don't envy the job that wait staff has, not something I would like to do. I just take issue with the fact that some wait staff (not all) seem to feel entitled to a certain tip level no matter the service they provide. 

 

Avg service gets %15 from me. Where did this %20 come from?

[4588686]

You need to wait tables at a restaurant.......work evenings.....holidays....weekends.....take customer orders......stand on your feet for hours on end............clean bathrooms......sweep/mop the floor........roll silverware......greet customers.....sell them products.....resolve  customer conflict.......listen to the managers sermon on the customer god and the worker devil.......etc....and then deal with those customers that just use you......

 

If you can't afford 20% on the dollar that you spend at the restaurant, then you can't afford to go out.

 

See, you need to apply your logic to grass cutting.  How much does it cost to mow 1/4 acre lawn or so?  It's about $30ish.  It takes someone about 30 minutes to do that type of job.  So, according to you, that person should instead get like $10.....after all $20/hr is a lot, right?  It's not your fault that the grass cutting season is sporadic.....there's winter where a grass cutter makes nothing....he makes nothing when the grass doesn't grow.....if it rains half the week, it's not your fault the lawn guy nearly kills himself catching up.  It's not your fault he has to drive to your place and then back.  It's not your fault he has to buy machinery worth hundreds and thousands of dollars and maintain it much less transport it.

 

btw- I know most lawn care people do more than lawn cutting, but for the sake of argument, my point is that you can't cut grass all the time.  Just like most people eat at dinner time, grass only gets cut when its dry out and during the day.

 

My point is this is about opportunity cost.  I have waited tables for nearly 3 years.  I will tell you now.  If I only made minimum wage doing that, I would have quit a lot earlier, and switched to something easier where I could sit on my but, not deal with the idiot customers (many are!) and make minimum wage.....and get all my weekends and evenings back.

 

Because waiting tables is not worth minimum wage.  No one would wait tables....that's way to MUCH cow poo to deal with for $5-$7 when you ruin your evenings/weekends etc and then people decide that you already make enough so we'll save money and screw the server......

 

Btw- ordering desserts, alcohol etc is not negligible   Those items often mean extra trips and more times at the computer punching in the additional order.  It means you guys don't clear out of my booth for another 10+ minutes.  It means I now have to go by the bar which may not be exactly on my way.  With all those extra items, are items I have to be familiar with in case the customer asks questions.  Servers are a line of quality control.  We have to be familiar with what the kitchen gives us and make sure its up to spec. Sometimes, we even make it!  More desserts, mean more dishes, and a slightly bigger mess.  More alcohol means more liability as we have to check for ID and make sure we don't serve someone to the point of drunkenness.

 

Servers make the big bucks because that is what makes it worth it.  If I didn't make the money I did while waiting tables, many more tables would have gotten worse service......as I simply wouldn't put in the effort.  And I wouldn't work weekends, or evenings when people want to eat.

 

I know you think $45/hr is a massive wage.  You are right.  It is.  But it most restaurant scenarios, it is unsustainable.

 

Servers cannot get jobs working only the dinner rush.  Typically, you have to work from 4ish to 10 ish and often later.  If I only made 10%, I would say SCREW IT and do something that doesn't destroy my evenings.  But because I made the money I would end the night with making a few dollars over minimum wage which made it worthwhile.  Making 10% on the bill for all the tables is not worth it.

 

So at the end of the day, you do pay for the slowness factor.  You pay for making me deal with cleaning bathrooms, rolling silverware, and putting up with the massive customer idiocy.  Because if I don't make that huge bonus during the dinner rush, it frankly isn't worth it.  You think it's a scam.  I have worked there.  And its justified.

 

10% is an insult tip (on an average table order with normal reasonable service).....and it always comes from those who haven't been there.

 

Oh....and the server hates it as much as you when it takes forever for the kitchen to get food out.  Severs make money by turning tables over quickly....in out in out in out ....that is how you make money.  Except we get all the crap....from you AND the kitchen when we tell them to go faster.  In the restaurant industry, once you get behind, you NEVER catch up until people stop coming.  God help you too when an order gets messed up and it's busy. :rolleyes:

 

I would like you to do a test trial for me.  The next 10 times you go out to eat, tell the server beforehand you only tip 10% max because they already make enough.  Explain to them your logic of how they make enough.  See what kind of service you get.  Because I can guarantee, that if I knew with certainty that the most I could get off a table was 10%, I would put that table on low priority and not trip over myself making sure everything was up to parr.  And if I had a choice, you wouldn't even sit in my section because frankly, you're not worth it.

 

 

The real issue here is to get all government intrusion out of the restaurant business.  Minimum wage laws ought to be abolished and workers who want to utilize their breaks should expect to be replaced with more economically desperate workers.  

Edited February 5, 2013 by Hasan

[Papist]

I don't believe the 18% should be a given, unless the table is a large party. The waiter needs to earn his tip. Tip should not be gifted to him regardless of the quality of his customer service.  The customer should have the right to tip in proportion of the service (not food) he received.  Customer needs to be honest and fair in his assessment of the service.  There are times I went above the 18% to show my gratitude for the waiter's excellent service, sometimes even given cash on top of the tip put on the credit card. Even if the service is terrible and the waiter is rude, one should still tip. 

 

It be cool if restaurants could add to the customer's bill if customer is a jerk-face. That might give the customer an incentive to treat the waiter properly.

[Anomaly]

The real issue here is to get all government intrusion out of the restaurant business.  Minimum wage laws ought to be abolished and workers who want to utilize their breaks should expect to be replaced with more economically desperate workers.  

 

The GOVERNMENT must do something because people are rude and don't tip waiters?

[4588686]

I 

It be cool if restaurants could add to the customer's bill if customer is a jerk-face. That might give the customer an incentive to treat the waiter properly.

 

 

Why would Applebee's care if a waiter is being treated properly or not?  Theoretically, sure.  They get a higher quality of waitstaff which allows them to produce a better product which increases their profits.  And that sounds great.  Theoretically.  But realistically.  In an economic environment like this one, where there is substantial unemployment which is only more substantial for individuals without a college degree, individuals who will likely have to work at a place like Applebee's for most of their working lives, why would Applebee's give two poos?  What is somebody one a razor thin budget in a high unemployment economy going to do?  Quit on the assumption that they can find something better to do before rent is due?

 

 

I don't know what is going to happen to this generation because in much of the country there is nothing to do.  I am lucky that I have a decent resume.  I oversaw a $10,000 budget on an international grant project.  From that I happened to be able to get an entry level job with the Obama campaign.  And from that managed to get a decent position with responsibilities and leadership blah blah blah.  I have not been paid well with anything that I've done out of college.  And that's fine with me because I've gotten to do activities that I've found meaningful (not counting my second job in retail).  But I don't know anybody else who is doing anything close to what they wanted to do.  They either are stuck, after doing well at UNC which they got to go to because they did well in high school, doing a minimum wage dead end job with no opportunities for leadership experience to put on their resume or going into consulting.  That pays very well but since they are well educated they understand that what they are doing is perpetuating a system that makes the rich much richer and leaves the poor behind (at best).  That's about it as far as I can see.  Consulting.  UNC has decent academic ranking so major firms recruit here.  Most of their spots are reserved for the Ivy League schools.  The the top-tier non Ivy League schools like UVA, UNC, Duke (Duke probably falls closer to the Ivy status though) and then as far as I know nothing.  I don't know who is recruiting at schools like ECU or UNCG.  From what I've heard it's mostly jobs that you really don't need a college degree to get into but if you do well and have a degree then you can move up at an accelerated pace.  Not a good choice to make.  And, the most important part, that's making life even worse for the working poor and people who would traditionally comprise that class since they are not stuck having to compete with people who have a four year degree against their high school degree.  

Edited February 5, 2013 by Hasan

[4588686]

The GOVERNMENT must do something because people are rude and don't tip waiters?

http://www.amazon.com/Stole-American-Dream-Hedrick-Smith/dp/1400069661/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1360074535&sr=8-1&keywords=who+stole+the+american+dream

 

http://www.amazon.com/Unequal-Democracy-Political-Economy-Gilded/dp/0691136637/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1360074553&sr=1-1&keywords=unequal+democracy

 

http://www.amazon.com/New-Jim-Crow-Michelle-Alexander/dp/1595586431/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1360074569&sr=1-1&keywords=the+new+jim+crow

 

http://www.amazon.com/Work-Place-Social-Regulation-Labor-Markets/dp/1572300442/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=RL224D8QKW6L&coliid=I2BU7OQS191F1Q

 

http://www.amazon.com/Poverty-Power-Problem-Structural-Inequality/dp/0742564444/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pdT1_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=RL224D8QKW6L&coliid=I1FKM22FMPRK5F

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/Regulating-Poor-Functions-Public-Welfare/dp/0679745165/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_nC?ie=UTF8&colid=RL224D8QKW6L&coliid=I2LQO4YZC9R17D