The Constitution Separates Church And State,except For Healthcare

[StMichael]

Lets put this behind us.

 

I am not responding to you as described. I am, however, responding with history that contradicts your perception. 

 

We can both agree that those who participated in this committed grave sins. I don't think there is any argument there. I understand you see America as outlined by mainstream media, college professors, etc. that see this great nation as simply just another country. Furthermore, grave sins were committed by man, but not to just one type of man or from one type of man, but, evil men. Evil knows no color.

 

Over the course of human history, enslavement has occurred to men and women by the Egyptians, Romans, English, etc. Jews were slaves. Catholics were (and are still slaves in the middle east, namely Pakistan) as well.

 

What is great about America, that cannot be found anywhere else, is not its sins, but its freedom to correct those sins by allowing us to speak freely, worship freely, protect ourselves freely, own property freely, etc. To be free to make our OWN way. We are individuals, not a collective of races, sexes, etc.

 

Sadly, what you appear to be exposed to, is the thinking of those who want us to be as other countries. Government-centric. This I flatly reject. 

 

 

You are responding to me as if I have said many white people owned slaves. Very few white people owned slaves. Very few black people owned slaves. Very few "Indians" owned slaves. The slaves that were owned by all three of those groups were black. This is not mythology. This is not a liberal fantasy. This is American history. No one in this country was chattel unless they were descended (in whole or part) from Africans.  You are correct about my lack of charity in response to you--you might consider examining your own posts to see why that is the case--but even failing you doing so, I have been wrong, in the way I've responded to you. If you have been bought by Christ you are a holy thing and deserving of my deference, my respect, my kindness, and my love. I apologize to you and I repent before the eyes of this church (that's what it is) and her Lord.

 

[Evangetholic]

Virginia and New England. Not parts of the United States.

 

One learns something new, every day, I suppose.

 

You can be as dismissive as you want, but there were no white slaves in the United States. I've yet to see anything that isn't talking about indentured servitude (it is possible I've missed the post??), now having said that, even IF 99.999% of enslaved humans in the US were white, it still wouldn't undermine my initial point--there was very little that was admirable, or godly vis-a-vis the founders (who incidently rebelled in part because Parliament alleviated some of the Catholic Church's sufferings in Quebec).

[Winchester]

You can be as dismissive as you want, but there were no white slaves in the United States. I've yet to see anything that isn't talking about indentured servitude (it is possible I've missed the post??), now having said that, even IF 99.999% of enslaved humans in the US were white, it still wouldn't undermine my initial point--there was very little that was admirable, or godly vis-a-vis the founders (who incidently rebelled in part because Parliament alleviated some of the Catholic Church's sufferings in Quebec).

 

So it was slavery when you knew it wasn't in the US. Okey-dokey.

[Evangetholic]

http://www.globalresearch.ca/the-irish-slave-trade-the-forgotten-white-slaves/31076

 

http://chroniclinghate.wordpress.com/2011/03/04/globalresearch-ca-a-collection-of-racist-fantasies/

 

This is about your source??
 

So it was slavery when you knew it wasn't in the US. Okey-dokey.

 

Are you actually reading my posts are just engaging in snark?? It can be slavery if you need it to be--the point that started this still stands.

[Winchester]

http://chroniclinghate.wordpress.com/2011/03/04/globalresearch-ca-a-collection-of-racist-fantasies/

 

This is about your source??
 

 

Could be. I'm not married to any of these premises. It's my first encounter with them. But not the first time I've seen battling between groups. I belong to Oathkeepers, and I'm an an-cap. According to SPLC, I'm in a hate group.

 

Search "Irish" on that page. Look at who published the book reviewed on the page.

Here's the Amazon page for the book that is reviewed in the article on that page. Please quit making me do work, for you.

 

 

http://www.amazon.com/White-Cargo-Forgotten-History-Britains/dp/0814742963

Edited February 9, 2013 by Winchester

[StMichael]

Again, I fail to see how you refuse to understand that not only were there white slaves in the United States, there were also black slaveowners  as well.

 

Many were orphaned children or unwanted who were sold at auction. Some were criminals from overseas, but what gave "allowance" to those who held slaves were that they were non-Christians. This existed until 1865.

 

As for the founders. They were great men for what they created. They did not create a new country that ensured they were enriched but that this new country would allow all people - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. No other country before, nor none since have allowed the individual to rise as we do.

 

We do not have a class system regardless of what is parroted on TV and by the current President. We are not born into a blacksmith family and our only option is to continue as such. The limits have been taken off, on both ends. You can go from poor to rich based on your wants and abilities. You can also go from rich to poor based on the lack thereof.

 

We have crept far too close to allowing temporary politicians to pit us against each other. Tell us we are part of a class or even a party. I am not defined by some governmental party, in fact I want government out of my life and allow me to worship as I please, care for myself as I please, etc.

 

I am not part of a collective. I am an individual.

 

I have love for this country, but certainly not for the government that has sidestepped the Constitution for the last 100 years (btw, this past week is the 100th anniversary of the income tax., thanks Woodrow). I reject socialism. I reject progressives. I reject crony capitalism. 

 

I also reject the simplistic view of our great nations history. What once took a trip to the library, can now be found in a few keystrokes online. 

 

 

You can be as dismissive as you want, but there were no white slaves in the United States. I've yet to see anything that isn't talking about indentured servitude (it is possible I've missed the post??), now having said that, even IF 99.999% of enslaved humans in the US were white, it still wouldn't undermine my initial point--there was very little that was admirable, or godly vis-a-vis the founders (who incidently rebelled in part because Parliament alleviated some of the Catholic Church's sufferings in Quebec).

 

[Evangetholic]

Could be. I'm not married to any of these premises. It's my first encounter with them. But not the first time I've seen battling between groups. I belong to Oathkeepers, and I'm an an-cap. According to SPLC, I'm in a hate group.

 

Search "Irish" on that page. Look at who published the book reviewed on the page.

 

Oathkeepers is not a hate group. My spiritual father belongs to oathkeepers. He's the man who taught me to stop thinking like a woman (no sexism intended).

[Evangetholic]

Googling the names of the authors of this book returns various white supremacist groups. (Which is not intended as an accusation against either the authors or you Winchester.)

Edited February 9, 2013 by Evangetholic

[Evangetholic]

Again, I fail to see how you refuse to understand that not only were there white slaves in the United States, there were also black slaveowners  as well.

 

Many were orphaned children or unwanted who were sold at auction. Some were criminals from overseas, but what gave "allowance" to those who held slaves were that they were non-Christians. This existed until 1865.

 

As for the founders. They were great men for what they created. They did not create a new country that ensured they were enriched but that this new country would allow all people - life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. No other country before, nor none since have allowed the individual to rise as we do.

 

We do not have a class system regardless of what is parroted on TV and by the current President. We are not born into a blacksmith family and our only option is to continue as such. The limits have been taken off, on both ends. You can go from poor to rich based on your wants and abilities. You can also go from rich to poor based on the lack thereof.

 

We have crept far too close to allowing temporary politicians to pit us against each other. Tell us we are part of a class or even a party. I am not defined by some governmental party, in fact I want government out of my life and allow me to worship as I please, care for myself as I please, etc.

 

I am not part of a collective. I am an individual.

 

I have love for this country, but certainly not for the government that has sidestepped the Constitution for the last 100 years (btw, this past week is the 100th anniversary of the income tax., thanks Woodrow). I reject socialism. I reject progressives. I reject crony capitalism. 

 

I also reject the simplistic view of our great nations history. What once took a trip to the library, can now be found in a few keystrokes online. 

 

Please show me where I've denied the existence of black slaveholders? I am not interested enough in temporal things to engage you on your political statements. I do not love this country. I will not be made to. This is neither a sin nor a crime. Earthly governments are corrupt and sooner or later turn persecutory towards the church.
 

Edited February 9, 2013 by Evangetholic

[add]

slavery in the US was outlawed 148 years ago

get over it

 

[Evangetholic]

slavery in the US was outlawed 148 years ago

get over it

*sigh* I've never and I live in the SOUTH had a set of interactions with Christians like this one.  Some people carry the pain of slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, the lynchings that only stopped forty years ago, etc. Is "get over it" really the Christian response to this?

[add]

*sigh* I've never and I live in the SOUTH had a set of interactions with Christians like this one.  Some people carry the pain of slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, the lynchings that only stopped forty years ago, etc. Is "get over it" really the Christian response to this?

 

 

If you know the bible then let it be your guide: 

 

Turn the other cheek

1. 
   Seek to give rather than to take.
2. 
    The very essence of forgiveness is the waving of rights. And he forgives because he knows that he has been forgiven by God.  
3. 
    Accept insult, criticism, threat, physical injury, with a forgiving heart so that in doing so, some might have the opportunity to be drawn to God.   Overcome evil with the weapon of love.

 

[Evangetholic]

 

If you know the bible then let it be your guide: 

 

Turn the other cheek

1. 
   Seek to give rather than to take.
2. 
    The very essence of forgiveness is the waving of rights. And he forgives because he knows that he has been forgiven by God.  
3. 
    Accept insult, criticism, threat, physical injury, with a forgiving heart so that in doing so, some might have the opportunity to be drawn to God.   Overcome evil with the weapon of love.

 

 

And rebuke the devil even if he quotes scripture to you. Love that which is godly and hate that which is evil. Be separate from this world and seek heavenly things. Never become dejected because Jesus has conquered the world and it's only a shadow foolishly awaiting its destruction.

[add]

And rebuke the devil even if he quotes scripture to you. Love that which is godly and hate that which is evil. Be separate from this world and seek heavenly things. Never become dejected because Jesus has conquered the world and it's only a shadow foolishly awaiting its destruction.

 

Now who is being prejudice? You have condemned me without knowing the first thing about me, you know neither my heritage nor ethnic background.

 

Your contempt for your fellow man is disheartening. 

 

If I have wrong you somehow, I apologize. 

 

peace :concede:  brother

 

[4588686]

*sigh* I've never and I live in the SOUTH had a set of interactions with Christians like this one.  Some people carry the pain of slavery, Jim Crow, segregation, the lynchings that only stopped forty years ago, etc. Is "get over it" really the Christian response to this?

It's a good response if you've never lived in the American South.

 

 

The South is still extremely segregated.  It's not enforced by guys in funny costumes burning crosses anymore but it's still the reality.