Lil Red Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Sexual assault really messes people up. Some recover, some don't. If I had my druthers, we'd put bullets in the head of every worthless rapist on this planet, including the priests. you're being much too merciful to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 He should have his red hat taken from him, his bishopric revoked, and be busted down to a simple monk or even layman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 He should have his red hat taken from him, his bishopric revoked, and be busted down to a simple monk or even layman. That is the eclisiatical punishment. The problem is they protected them from and deflected legal and civil punishment which enabled forther crimes and harm. Those choices made immoral behavior tolerated snd effectively a part of the Church institution while claiming go be the infallible presence of moral instruction to humanity. I get they're human and nit perfect, but their faulings shouldn't be equivalent to the averages in other institutions thst lack the claimed Divine Participation and Graces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I think the best thing the catholic church could do wold be o very seriously(and competently) investigate these, and try and unearth other such cases, then if they find evidence that there was abuse, then deliver the offending priest/etc tied up and bruised on the front steps of the local police station, with a folder full of evidence against them. And in order to find these abuses, they would have to really start looking. While I'm for seriously cracking down on sexual abuse in the Church and getting tough on sexual offenders as much as anyone, I think it's also important to avoid a witch-hunt. Since the publicizing of the sex abuse scandals, plenty of good, innocent priests have had their reputations and lives permanently ruined because they were falsely accused by gold-diggers or those with a vendetta against them - even though they were proven innocent in court. Evidence of abuse should definitely not be suppressed or covered up where it exists, but neither should authorities strenuously strive to seek out and "unearth" evidence of sexual abuse by priests where none exists. This would lead to a witch-hunt mentality in which priests are presumed guilty until proven innocent, and considered suspect simply on account of being priests. Even if the law proves them innocent, their lives are still ruined. More harm than good would be done in such a situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 But I think the problem right there is that people were too concerned about reputations and didn't fully cooperate with authorities. We don't have the luxury of defending a good reputation anymore, until we establish a culture of being routinely open and cooperative with police authorities in any situation. We need to invest every allegation. That's the only way Church leaders will be able to gain back any semblance of trust. It seems to me like a slippery slope. Being falsely accused would be horrible, it'd make me feel like the lowest of the low. But that's the price we have to pay for our past sins. Didn't Jesus say blessed are the persecuted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 The problem wasn't homosexuality. The problem was priests sexually abusing minors and your Church going to extraordinary lengths to protect those Priests. Your evasive and morally chicken poo post is why so very many Catholics have left your Church. Someone like Mahony is not an awful, awful human being because he happened to get some Priests under his jurisdiction who were sexual predators. He's such an awful, awful man because of how he responded to those acts. . The problem was both homosexuality and that various officials in the hierarchy went to extraordinary lengths to cover up the abuse. As far as Mahony being awful is concerned, I agree his actions were awful, and they reveal something about his inner character; and he should be prosecuted by the civil authorities for his crimes if the statute of limitations has not run out in connection with his involvement in the sex abuse cover up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 But I think the problem right there is that people were too concerned about reputations and didn't fully cooperate with authorities. We don't have the luxury of defending a good reputation anymore, until we establish a culture of being routinely open and cooperative with police authorities in any situation. We need to invest every allegation. That's the only way Church leaders will be able to gain back any semblance of trust. It seems to me like a slippery slope. Being falsely accused would be horrible, it'd make me feel like the lowest of the low. But that's the price we have to pay for our past sins. Didn't Jesus say blessed are the persecuted? I'm not saying Churchmen shouldn't cooperate with authorities or that serious allegations should not be investigated. I'm simply cautioning that it should not turn into a witch-hunt, and that there is no reason to "really start looking" for sexual abuse in cases where there is no actual evidence or allegations. A man shouldn't be treated as a suspected sex offender simply on account of being a priest. I would regard anything beyond background checks required of teachers and such to be excessive. The cases I mentioned have nothing to do with men paying for their past sins, but innocent men paying for the sins of others. And it's not just individual priests that suffer, but entire parishes, and the Church as a whole. Yes, unjust persecution will happen in these circumstances, but we shouldn't unduly contribute to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I agree . . . no witch-hunts. I am for the proper prosecution of criminal activity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 The problem was both homosexuality and that various officials in the hierarchy went to extraordinary lengths to cover up the abuse. As far as Mahony being awful is concerned, I agree his actions were awful, and they reveal something about his inner character; and he should be prosecuted by the civil authorities for his crimes if the statute of limitations has not run out in connection with his involvement in the sex abuse cover up. So when a middle age female teacher jumps into be with a 14 year old male student the problem is heterosexuality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 So when a middle age female teacher jumps into be with a 14 year old male student the problem is heterosexuality? It is if the female teacher is actually a male in disguise. Whether you like it or not the fact remains that vast majority of the abuse cases (somewhere between 80 and 90 percent) were homosexual in nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 It is if the female teacher is actually a male in disguise. What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 What? I know that his is hard for you to grasp, but over 80 percent of the abuses cases in the Catholic Church were homosexual in nature, and so your bringing up a female teacher sleeping with a 14 year old boy is utterly irrelevant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 I know that his is hard for you to grasp, but over 80 percent of the abuses cases in the Catholic Church were homosexual in nature, and so your bringing up a female teacher sleeping with a 14 year old boy is utterly irrelevant. You did not clarify what your weird evasion was supposed to be saying. So I'll ask again. If an older female teacher gets into bed with a 14 year old male student, is the problem heterosexuality? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apotheoun Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 You did not clarify what your weird evasion was supposed to be saying. So I'll ask again. If an older female teacher gets into bed with a 14 year old male student, is the problem heterosexuality? Again, whether you like it or not, heterosexuality is normal and homosexuality is not. The female teacher in your example should be prosecuted for breaking the law and having sex with a minor, and the same should be done with the priests who abused boys, but in addition to that prosecution the Church should recognize that the homosexual orientation of the priests was a contributing factor to the problem. Whether you like it or not, the Catholic Church condemns homosexual behavior as contrary to nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted February 2, 2013 Share Posted February 2, 2013 Again, whether you like it or not, heterosexuality is normal and homosexuality is not. Still have not answered the question. And I'm happy to admit that heterosexuality is normal and homosexuality is not. I just don't draw any normative conclusions from which is the more common sexual orientation. The female teacher in your example should be prosecuted for breaking the law and having sex with a minor, and the same should be done with the priests who abused boys, but in addition to that prosecution the Church should recognize that the homosexual orientation of the priests was a contributing factor to the problem. Whether you like it or not, the Catholic Church condemns homosexual behavior as contrary to nature. Sure. And heterosexuality was a contributing factor to the situation with the teacher and student. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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