rachael Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiiMichael Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I'm just going to interject about how this thread progressed, not about the actual subject matter. Augusta, you're clearly very concerned for your friend, hence the start of this thread and the tone of your continued responses. However, much of the blame for people not "getting" what you're trying to say lies with you. Saying "re-read this post and that post" don't help on the phorum, or around the internet at large. When people aren't "getting it" the best thing to do is re-word your point and add additional details. You jumped right in and accused people of being judgmental instead of trying to help them to better understand. Even with our resident trolls, the people of Phatmass are incredibly charitable, and this thread would have gone better if you'd explained yourself more, earlier on. Your original post was incredibly vague as to your friend's position, and made it sound like she was being a bit of a snob. The reason people have responded the way they have, is because they didn't have all the facts and because either they were themselves non-virgins or they know very nice non-virgins who have recommitted to a life of chastity; a similar situation seems to have been the catalyst for this discussion. I know when you brought up tattoos, I had a similar reaction. I'm a great guy, who happens to have 3 tattoos with the intention to get more. It raises my hackles a little bit when people say that they'd never marry a person with tattoos. It feels like I'm being discriminated against, along with my fellows who also have tattoos. Have people not acted charitably to your friend? Certainly, but I'd say that is "What Gives". Are they right? Definitely not. Your friend does have legitimate reasons for wanting to only marry a virgin. But when people feel like they are being discriminated against, and they don't have all of the facts, they tend to get defensive. I do hope you stay. You'd be a great addition to the phamily! Pax, GeorgiiMichael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augusta Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 So people who don't agree with you and your pal 100% have a "sickness"? Ok, then. I was pretty sure conversation was futile several pages ago, now I have proof. Did I say that? No. Why are you making those assumptions in bad faith? Please read the whole thread (including my replies). You've missed several of my points. You aren't seeking genuine conversation, you want to be coddled and agreed with. Actually I am, but thank you for assuming otherwise. I came here for answers. The way I got them told me a lot more than what they said. -AK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartjp2 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 *sigh* You missed the point by a long shot. Please. I'm begging you. Read the thread. Please. Trust me. You'll probably want to delete your recent posts after. -AK *sigh* I know I said I would leave and normally I'm good at it, but I really think you're missing an important point. It doesn't matter if it's you, your friend, or anyone else. Really, it doesn't. The topic of this thread isn't specific to your friend or anyone else, no matter how much you may personally care and feel for your friend. Valuing virginity the same way you would value some physical characteristic or some other advantage in marrying someone is not the right reason to marry them. Period. Having said that, I think I've made my peace within this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augusta Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 Just one last comment before I'm through. The encyclical on perpetual virginity has nothing to do with the discussion. What you're arguing over is the value of virginity that is given to another person through marriage. The encyclical discusses the gift of virginity to God and to society, which is a completely different concept since, duh, the virginity stays intact until death (and there is even discussion of a 'second virginity' after marriage ends with the death of a spouse and after reconciling one's sins, so if unspoiled virginity is good enough for God, why can't it be good enough for a mere human?). Even the discussion on marriage is strictly about the primacy of the state of perpetual virginity OVER marriage. Virginity given to a spouses in marriage in the sense in which Jason Evert speaks, however, is not what was being discussed. We've clearly misunderstood each other. It wasn't really intended to be related (as it's not the main question I'm trying to have answered). The progression: "It strikes me as illogical to hold virginity so high." "I think the Church does." "False." http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius12/P12SACRA.HTM And I'm not really arguing over anything (at least intentionally). I feel I've been dragged into a debate that was never supposed to happen, all because others have jumped to conclusions. Anyhow, we'd better end this line of conversation as it's not productive. -AK If you didn't want people to comment on it, you probably shouldn't have asked the question in the first place. Please read the whole thread. Please. It's not about me, it's about my friend. -AK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 That's what happens sometimes on Phatmass. We're a BIG group of passionate people and sometimes our conversations are long and winding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Did I say that? No. Why are you making those assumptions in bad faith? Please read the whole thread (including my replies). You've missed several of my points. Actually I am, but thank you for assuming otherwise. I came here for answers. The way I got them told me a lot more than what they said. -AK I have read every single post in this thread. You've accused almost every person who has replied to you of having "bad faith assumptions" or being "judgmental" or "the attitude, or should I say 'sickness'." You throw around a lot of accusations without actually taking in any of the points that other people have offered. I'm not making assumptions in bad faith, I'm looking at what you've said and you don't come across as actually caring what we say to you unless we're agreeing with you. if we don't agree then we're some slew of bad stuff. It feels like you are making "bad faith assumptions" (by the way, that's a really stupid phrase) against all of us. You've accused people of making ugly statements about your friend and, really, no one has. The whole thread is just silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augusta Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 *sigh* I know I said I would leave and normally I'm good at it, but I really think you're missing an important point. It doesn't matter if it's you, your friend, or anyone else. Really, it doesn't. The topic of this thread isn't specific to your friend or anyone else, no matter how much you may personally care and feel for your friend. Valuing virginity the same way you would value some physical characteristic or some other advantage in marrying someone is not the right reason to marry them. Period. My friend has never suggested the reason she would marry someone is because they were a virgin. You've misread my earlier posts. You don't do any justice to your points (or your time) if you argue for something no one is opposed to. -AK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriela Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Good grief. Seven pages already. dUSt, where's the "cat-fight" emoticon? How come there's never an emoticon to express how I feel?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 I'm just going to interject about how this thread progressed, not about the actual subject matter. Augusta, you're clearly very concerned for your friend, hence the start of this thread and the tone of your continued responses. However, much of the blame for people not "getting" what you're trying to say lies with you. Saying "re-read this post and that post" don't help on the phorum, or around the internet at large. When people aren't "getting it" the best thing to do is re-word your point and add additional details. You jumped right in and accused people of being judgmental instead of trying to help them to better understand. Even with our resident trolls, the people of Phatmass are incredibly charitable, and this thread would have gone better if you'd explained yourself more, earlier on. Your original post was incredibly vague as to your friend's position, and made it sound like she was being a bit of a snob. The reason people have responded the way they have, is because they didn't have all the facts and because either they were themselves non-virgins or they know very nice non-virgins who have recommitted to a life of chastity; a similar situation seems to have been the catalyst for this discussion. I know when you brought up tattoos, I had a similar reaction. I'm a great guy, who happens to have 3 tattoos with the intention to get more. It raises my hackles a little bit when people say that they'd never marry a person with tattoos. It feels like I'm being discriminated against, along with my fellows who also have tattoos. Have people not acted charitably to your friend? Certainly, but I'd say that is "What Gives". Are they right? Definitely not. Your friend does have legitimate reasons for wanting to only marry a virgin. But when people feel like they are being discriminated against, and they don't have all of the facts, they tend to get defensive. I do hope you stay. You'd be a great addition to the phamily! Pax, GeorgiiMichael i heart you. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augusta Posted January 30, 2013 Author Share Posted January 30, 2013 I have read every single post in this thread. You've accused almost every person who has replied to you of having "bad faith assumptions" or being "judgmental" or "the attitude, or should I say 'sickness'." You throw around a lot of accusations without actually taking in any of the points that other people have offered. I'm not making assumptions in bad faith, I'm looking at what you've said and you don't come across as actually caring what we say to you unless we're agreeing with you. if we don't agree then we're some slew of bad stuff. It feels like you are making "bad faith assumptions" (by the way, that's a really stupid phrase) against all of us. You've accused people of making ugly statements about your friend and, really, no one has. The whole thread is just silly. You're free to make that call. without actually taking in any of the points that other people have offered You don't honestly believe that to be true, do you? Of course I've taken in points made by others. Given the misunderstanding evident in your reply, I think it's best for both of us if we just end this line of conversation. -AK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeorgiiMichael Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Did you read my post or.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissyP89 Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 (edited) Augusta, EVERYONE HERE AGREES that your friend was treated BADLY and that what they did was WRONG. We agree. Attitudes like that are wrong. We are NOT saying the same things as those people. Please take a deep breath. It's OK. No one is attacking virgins, virginity, or who she wants to marry. The way you're behaving isn't conducive to a productive, healthy, charitable discussion. Even your initial post was hostile and accusatory. That's not the right way to start things off. Edited January 30, 2013 by MissyP89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 You don't honestly believe that to be true, do you? Yes, yes I do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lil Red Posted January 30, 2013 Share Posted January 30, 2013 Augusta, EVERYONE HERE AGREES that your friend was treated BADLY and that what they did was WRONG. We agree. Attitudes like that are wrong. We are NOT saying the same things as those people. Please take a deep breath. It's OK. No one is attacking virgins, virginity, or who she wants to marry. The way you're behaving isn't conducive to a productive, healthy, charitable discussion. Even your initial post was hostile and accusatory. That's not the right way to start things off. i heart you too. :love: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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