What Gives?

[Basilisa Marie]

Burn all of the non-virgins

 

I've got the volcano ready. 

[Nihil Obstat]

Burn all of the non-virgins

Heck, burn the virgins too.

Some men just want to see the world burn.

[GeorgiiMichael]

Heck, burn the virgins too.

Some men just want to see the world burn.

 

[Augusta]

I have read the entire thread

Excellent.

 

 

and I never said this thread was about you

I don't believe I said that you said that.

 

but you said you thought people should mind their own business about a topic you brought up.

Ah, this is where there's been some misunderstanding. You've lost the context in which I said that. I was referring to the people who were emotionally abusing my friend. I thought it would have made been apparent given the fact that my comment about "minding one's business" immediately followed a reference to the emotional abuse in real life. Context is important. I wish those people had minded their own business. It would be absurd of me to get annoyed at people for being involved in something I involved them in!

 

Therefore, yes, people are commenting on it, and making comments that you may not like or agree with, and may seem somewhat harsh to you, but bear in mind, you brought it up. To then say that people need to mind their own business is a bit over the top.

Most of this is not valid (given the above explanation). Anyhow, it's not harsh to me, per se, but rather serves as too good a reminder of what my friend went through.

 

 

-AK
 

[Augusta]

I guess that's why Jesus turned his back on the woman at the well and Mary Magdalen.. oh... wait.

Did he marry her? No. Did he forgive her? Yes. Are forgiving and marrying the same thing? No.

 

Before you think I should re-read the thread I think you need to know these things

Not re-read, but read.

 

1- I have read every post on this thread.

Excellent

 

2- I replied to the exact post you linked me when you said I obviously had not read your reply

Okay, do you understand the words I used? Particularly "sufficient" and "necessary." In other words, tell me how you interpreted the post I linked. Here's the text: "I don't think people are really focusing on it as a state. Sure, there are people who will marry a virgin, not someone who is a virgin, but mostly that's not the case. Put another way: virginity is a necessary cause for marriage, but not a sufficient cause"
 

3- You must not have read MY post where I said it is completely fine and NORMAL for someone to prefer to marry a virgin.

I saw it, but "prefer" != "only"
 

5- the problem is when one person objectifies someone else based on their virginity. That's when it becomes wrong.

And we agree on that! This is partially why I'm frustrated. I'm using very specific language, meant to convey very specific things (which are in agreement with you, too).

 

It is a sin to become so concerned with someone's vriginity that you miss the person's PERSON

Again, we agree on that. Here's a question: what are the reasons for which my friend has (had...) decided to set virginity as a criterion?

 

 

I'm not looking for people to agree with me (I wish people would stop suggesting that...). I am looking for people to be respectful (and not conflate me with other people and threads).

I take issue with the fact that a person wanting to marry a virgin can't just be left alone to that. They have to be called names, or labeled with petty insults like "insecure." What do people expect of them? To apologize? To grovel? To not marry at all? Why is the "mission" to ensure they don't "survive" their decision unscathed? They know why they want what they want, but they have to be made to feel bad about? I question the frenzied remonstrations handed out in the name of Christian charity.

If there is no judgment involved, why then are terms like "insecure" even uttered? If such a criterion is okay, why so much railing? Why can't it be "we respect their choices and won't question their motives"? It seems to be one of the few criterion that attracts an immense amount of questioning and conjecture.

 

 

-AK

Hope we can turn this thread into a more positive and healthy discussion

Well, you can clarify or retract this statement: "if you really can't marry someone because they made mistakes, you have no place getting married"

Are you suggesting that that is Church teaching, by the way? I'd be curious to hear what basis it has. If it's your personal "doctrine," keep it to yourself.

 

I know you're young and all, and sometimes young people say things to get attention, but still, you shouldn't pass that off as truth. You should at least preface it with "I personally believe..." or something like that.

 

 

-AK

 

[Augusta]

Here's my summary: people have a right to set criteria for the person they marry. They have a right to not be attacked, insulted, or abused for that choice. They have the right to not have nefarious or selfish motives automatically attributed to their decisions. They have the right to "good faith" assumptions about their decisions.

The assumption that such a person is automatically unaware of the ramifications of their decision is wrong, along with the automatic assumption that they are solely looking for a virgin, ignoring everything else about such a person.

I think many of these bad faith assumptions are the justification for mistreatment. I think if someone truly believes that a virgin wanting to marry another virgin is a selfish, unaware, unChristian person only wanting to marry someone because they're a virgin, it would be easy to hurt them. If people were aware of the thought processes behind their decision, they may at least cut them some slack.

Thank you to everyone for your comments, even if they were cruel or callous - they've enlightened me. In turn I think I will more able to help my friend in the long run.

-AK


P.S. It is also true that their are consequences to premarital sex that are not negligible.
 

[Nihil Obstat]

Thank you to everyone for your comments, even if they were cruel or callous - they've enlightened me. In turn I think I will more able to help my friend in the long run.

-AK

See, now this thing here........... This is why we are having a hard time warming up to you, you see. Funny how that works.

[PhuturePriest]

Well, you can clarify or retract this statement: "if you really can't marry someone because they made mistakes, you have no place getting married"

Are you suggesting that that is Church teaching, by the way? I'd be curious to hear what basis it has. If it's your personal "doctrine," keep it to yourself.

 

I know you're young and all, and sometimes young people say things to get attention, but still, you shouldn't pass that off as truth. You should at least preface it with "I personally believe..." or something like that.

 

 

-AK

 

 

I never suggested or implied that it was Church teaching.

 

Saying to "keep it to myself" is an idiotic statement. You made the thread. You have to expect people to give their OPINIONS about what they think of the topic. That is the purpose of threads. You are taking my quote out of context, but that is besides the point. If you don't like it, keep these threads to yourself.

 

How is this not being judgmental? You automatically assume I am looking for attention by saying things. Trust me, if I was looking for attention I have a million other ways I would rather do it. Get a girlfriend, make a thread about how my life sucks and beg for consolation, strip down naked and walk into a McDonald's, etc. The last thing that comes to my mind when getting attention is talking to a person that clearly can't take her hands off her ears in order to listen to others.

 

And it should be assumed that when someone posts something it is that person's opinion. I and everyone else on this site are not going to change how we post just because a person that has been here a day deems it fit for us to begin every post with "I personally believe".

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

People's decisions or choices or whatever are always going to be disliked or berated by someone at some point in their life. There is simply no denying that. It doesn't matter what the choice is, there'll always be someone who disagrees.

But it's not fair that someone insult someone else for a personal choice? Life isn't fair. You move on anyway.

Maybe if your friend's friends are being all weird, she should get some new friends. That's my two cents.

Again, life isn't fair. You move on anyway.

[Augusta]

See, now this thing here........... This is why we are having a hard time warming up to you, you see. Funny how that works.

Given who and what I'm advocating for, I don't think many here would warm up to me. I think people who set certain criteria for marriage partners will always be thought less of. It's a shame that that kind of behaviour can be engaged in under the guise of faith. It really is.

 

And I don't think it will ever stop. To my perception, it's the last tenable "holier-than-thou" attitude there is.

 

 

-AK
 

People's decisions or choices or whatever are always going to be disliked or berated by someone at some point in their life. There is simply no denying that. It doesn't matter what the choice is, there'll always be someone who disagrees.

But it's not fair that someone insult someone else for a personal choice? Life isn't fair. You move on anyway.

Then I guess that really is the end result. Her decisions are her decisions, and the disagreements generated on here are just opinion. Of course, they may be advanced as something far beyond opinion, but are opinion nonetheless.

 

Maybe if your friend's friends are being all weird, she should get some new friends. That's my two cents.

"Weird" is not the word I'd use. "Criminal" is probably closer.

 

Again, life isn't fair. You move on anyway.

So if a non-virgin is rejected by a virgin, you would tell them "life isn't fair. You move on anyway"? If so, I think we can wrap this up.

 

 

-AK
 

[PhuturePriest]

"Weird" is not the word I'd use. "Criminal" is probably closer.

 

Just for clarification, is this your opinion, or Church teaching? You didn't begin with "In my personal opinion..." so I don't know what you are implying with this.

[FutureCarmeliteClaire]

Nope. I was only referring to what your friend experienced from her friends disagreeing with her and being rude to her. No, it isn't fair. But it's her decision, and her friends might disagree, but it's her decision. :)

God bless. :)

[Nihil Obstat]

Given who and what I'm advocating for, I don't think many here would warm up to me. I think people who set certain criteria for marriage partners will always be thought less of. It's a shame that that kind of behaviour can be engaged in under the guise of faith. It really is.
 
And I don't think it will ever stop. To my perception, it's the last tenable "holier-than-thou" attitude there is.
 
 
-AK

Yes, truly a stretch to expect a bunch of Catholics to appreciate virginity, right? Come on now. You are intelligent enough to know that this is not true. 

 

It truly is not what you are saying. The truth is you are having a tough time interacting here with us in a positive way.

And yes, it is hard. Every single person here with the possible exceptions of mIsij and Brian are giant bastages, and we are all rather disagreeable. But we gave you several generous chances which you did not really take advantage of.

We were accused over and over again of bad faith, selective reading, and callousness. For disagreeable bastages like us, that makes us feel very disrespected, and we are rather inclined to respond in kind. Because we, like yourself, are not perfect.

 

But anyway, I am done. I asked you several times to tell us about yourself, and you never did. Sad story. :sad2: Make an introduction thread or something. I will just be wandering around here posting ponies, anime, and spreading Traditionalism and anarchy.

[PhuturePriest]

This thread has really centered upon a huge issue that has been growing on Phatmass recently: People being too lazy to click "Reply". It is much easier for a person to know that you responded to their post if you reply to it and it notifies them of it instead of just posting under their post. Thanks, guys! Ponies forever!

 

 

[EmilyAnn]