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Reconciling Personal Beliefs With Church Teaching


zabbazooey

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PhuturePriest

What if I firmly intend not to have premarital sex, go to confession, but still live with him? And avoid the near occasion of sin by sleeping separate until the big day? We're legally tied into this place, and we live together at dad's at the moment. 

 

Sorry to split hairs, I am just genuinely curious.

 


You can technically live with him, though it is not recommended since it will be very difficult not to have sex with him, especially if you are sleeping in the same bed. Sure, it may go well for a while, but once either of you is in the mood you will start to re-think your previously made promises, at least in all likelihood. Some people can sleep in the same bed, but the question is, why would you? Why risk your eternal soul?

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Roamin Catholic

:eek:  I had NO CLUE it was that effective if used properly. I don't want to use it as a 'contraceptive' as I know that is inherently sinful, but it would be advantageous to wait to have children until I can consult my doctors regarding the meds situation. I will talk to him more about it, I don't think he'd be on board. He's all about trusting modern medicine, even if it is not good for you! His problem is that he was never a faithful Catholic, never confirmed. His mom's side (gma, aunt/uncle) are very devout. He would never understand the reason behind NFP and would think it's silly. Of course we aren't married yet, but I don't know how to approach it with him. I am going to admit, I am completely frozen scared about trusting God with NFP...  :unsure:

 

It isn't sinful if the reason for postponing is of a grave matter. I'd consider the implications of the meds on the child a grave matter. As for finding a Dr, there are a few resources on the interwebs that maintain a database of NFP Dr's. Just be aware, most NFP Docs will not prescribe birth control due to the abortion aspect of them. 

 

Depending on your location, it can be easy to find an NFP Dr, but in some it can be nearly impossible. 

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You can technically live with him, though it is not recommended since it will be very difficult not to have sex with him, especially if you are sleeping in the same bed. Sure, it may go well for a while, but once either of you is in the mood you will start to re-think your previously made promises, at least in all likelihood. Some people can sleep in the same bed, but the question is, why would you? Why risk your eternal soul?

Well, we got this apartment and we were living together when I considered myself an atheist, so I didn't care?

 

And our new place has two bedrooms, and we have two beds (queen air mattress and regular queen bed)

 

I've always had feelings of returning to the Church but never really acted on them or gave them further acknowledgement until last week or so. I'm trying to take it slow, because usually I am like "Oh! I should go back to church! I am going to read 9000 books about church, read the bible everyday, pray the Divine office, pray the rosary, sign up for 2 hours of adoration, go to Mass, go to confession every week, join the University's FOCUS group" and then I lose momentum because I get overwhelmed and I drop it.

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PhuturePriest

Well, we got this apartment and we were living together when I considered myself an atheist, so I didn't care?

 

And our new place has two bedrooms, and we have two beds (queen air mattress and regular queen bed)

 

I've always had feelings of returning to the Church but never really acted on them or gave them further acknowledgement until last week or so. I'm trying to take it slow, because usually I am like "Oh! I should go back to church! I am going to read 9000 books about church, read the bible everyday, pray the Divine office, pray the rosary, sign up for 2 hours of adoration, go to Mass, go to confession every week, join the University's FOCUS group" and then I lose momentum because I get overwhelmed and I drop it.

 


Don't get overwhelmed. When I was starting my spiritual life, I started off with one decade of the Rosary a day. I pray an hour a day now, and if I did that back then I would have been overwhelmed and I would have quit. A spiritual life is like a fire: You have to start off slow with twigs and leaves, and then slowly build yourself up to sticks and eventually logs. If you start off with logs or even sticks, it will never go off. The flame will die immediately and you will be cold. Start off with slow and easy things like saying a Hail Mary or talking to God for just five minutes a day about how you are feeling about the Church, and sometimes just talk to him about whatever. Talk to him about your new haircut, your new shoes, the skirt you just bought, the nice date you had with your fiance, etc. God is of course God, but never forget to treat him and speak to him as you would a friend. This will help your spiritual life to deepen, or it at least did this for me.

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MissScripture

:eek:  I had NO CLUE it was that effective if used properly. I don't want to use it as a 'contraceptive' as I know that is inherently sinful, but it would be advantageous to wait to have children until I can consult my doctors regarding the meds situation. I will talk to him more about it, I don't think he'd be on board. He's all about trusting modern medicine, even if it is not good for you! His problem is that he was never a faithful Catholic, never confirmed. His mom's side (gma, aunt/uncle) are very devout. He would never understand the reason behind NFP and would think it's silly. Of course we aren't married yet, but I don't know how to approach it with him. I am going to admit, I am completely frozen scared about trusting God with NFP...  :unsure:

:wave: I'm the wife Roamin was talking about. It is valid to postpone pregnancy using NFP, though. So, as long as you were using it with some sort of "end" in mind (i.e. You are going to talk to your doctors about it, and in the meantime are postponing because of the meds, or because you are going through a particularly rough patch and really need these meds and trying to concieve would be bad on the meds, you are going to continue to postpone), I think it would fall under "trying to avoid" rather than "contraceptive mentality." Basically, like everything, we have to try our best to do what God wants and rely on His mercy when we fall short. 

 

Now, in regards to using contraceptives, even knowing the numbers, it was really, really hard sometimes to not want to be on a contraceptive! But we're surrounded by the promises these drugs are making that we won't get pregnant, but it simply isn't true! Like Roamin quoted with the numbers, it is DEFINITELY possible to get pregnant while using a contraceptive. (The really sick part of me even feeling like I should be on one is that it probably would've killed me, since they are contraindicated for people with heart problems!) It's hard and it's scary, but I just kept reminding myself that a pill isn't a guarantee. I was terrified of it, too. It took a huge amount of trust, when I had been told by three different doctors that if I got pregnant I would die, and so would the baby. But, in the long run, it really helped my relationship with God and with my husband, since I really, really had to trust both of them. 

 

If you want some scientific studies/numbers to back up NFP when you do talk to your fiancee, here are some links to info on the studies about Billings (the website formatting is a bit strange, but the info is there): 

http://www.woomb.org/omrrca/bulletin/vol27/no4/chinaEvaluation.html#conclusion

http://www.woomb.org/bom/trials/index.html

http://www.thebillingsovulationmethod.org/how-effective-is-the-billings-ovulation-method%E2%84%A2/effectiveness-in-preventing-pregnancy.html

 

And for a list of the horrible side effects of pretty much any contraceptive, refer to their commercials...but seriously, using the pill can have effects on pretty much every system in the body. I would really wonder how it would mix with the other drugs you would have to take, too, or how effective the pill would be with other drugs.

 

And finally, prayers. It's a lot of tough stuff to deal with and wade through, especially with someone who is not already on-board. Roamin had the advantage of knowing from the beginning that I would be using NFP, because I was already using it for medical reasons at the time. I can't imagine having to deal with that on top of everything else with my health.  

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:wave: I'm the wife Roamin was talking about. It is valid to postpone pregnancy using NFP, though. So, as long as you were using it with some sort of "end" in mind (i.e. You are going to talk to your doctors about it, and in the meantime are postponing because of the meds, or because you are going through a particularly rough patch and really need these meds and trying to concieve would be bad on the meds, you are going to continue to postpone), I think it would fall under "trying to avoid" rather than "contraceptive mentality." Basically, like everything, we have to try our best to do what God wants and rely on His mercy when we fall short. 

 

Now, in regards to using contraceptives, even knowing the numbers, it was really, really hard sometimes to not want to be on a contraceptive! But we're surrounded by the promises these drugs are making that we won't get pregnant, but it simply isn't true! Like Roamin quoted with the numbers, it is DEFINITELY possible to get pregnant while using a contraceptive. (The really sick part of me even feeling like I should be on one is that it probably would've killed me, since they are contraindicated for people with heart problems!) It's hard and it's scary, but I just kept reminding myself that a pill isn't a guarantee. I was terrified of it, too. It took a huge amount of trust, when I had been told by three different doctors that if I got pregnant I would die, and so would the baby. But, in the long run, it really helped my relationship with God and with my husband, since I really, really had to trust both of them. 

 

If you want some scientific studies/numbers to back up NFP when you do talk to your fiancee, here are some links to info on the studies about Billings (the website formatting is a bit strange, but the info is there): 

http://www.woomb.org/omrrca/bulletin/vol27/no4/chinaEvaluation.html#conclusion

http://www.woomb.org/bom/trials/index.html

http://www.thebillingsovulationmethod.org/how-effective-is-the-billings-ovulation-method%E2%84%A2/effectiveness-in-preventing-pregnancy.html

 

And for a list of the horrible side effects of pretty much any contraceptive, refer to their commercials...but seriously, using the pill can have effects on pretty much every system in the body. I would really wonder how it would mix with the other drugs you would have to take, too, or how effective the pill would be with other drugs.

 

And finally, prayers. It's a lot of tough stuff to deal with and wade through, especially with someone who is not already on-board. Roamin had the advantage of knowing from the beginning that I would be using NFP, because I was already using it for medical reasons at the time. I can't imagine having to deal with that on top of everything else with my health.  

 

I will say, I was floored when I learned (while having major mood swings on meds that are usually awesome for that) that the pill I started a few months ago can cause mood swings, migraines (which were making me puke, had to go to the ER because I couldn't stop vomiting, blehhh), deep depression, on top of the whole abortifacient issue as well. I mean, I still took them, lol because what are you gonna do? ABSTAIN?! Haha, silly me. 

 

I've heard NFP referenced several times on PM, and I knew it had something to do with tracking the temperature, mucous, or something. But wow, this is really cool actually. I'm definitely going to look into it. I didn't know it was so...scientific! :)

Edited by zabbazooey
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PhuturePriest

I will say, I was floored when I learned (while having major mood swings on meds that are usually awesome for that) that the pill I started a few months ago can cause mood swings, migraines (which were making me puke, had to go to the ER because I couldn't stop vomiting, blehhh), deep depression, on top of the who abortifacient issue as well. I mean, I still took them, lol because what are you gonna do? ABSTAIN?! Haha, silly me. 

 

I've heard NFP referenced several times on PM, and I knew it had something to do with tracking the temperature, mucous, or something. But wow, this is really cool actually. I'm definitely going to look into it. I didn't know it was so...scientific! :)

 

Just prepare your fiance as you read more about natural family planning. In natural family planning books he will learn more about a woman's privates than he ever wished to know. I personally could have gone a lifetime without knowing there was a mucus membrane down there...

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MissScripture

I will say, I was floored when I learned (while having major mood swings on meds that are usually awesome for that) that the pill I started a few months ago can cause mood swings, migraines (which were making me puke, had to go to the ER because I couldn't stop vomiting, blehhh), deep depression, on top of the who abortifacient issue as well. I mean, I still took them, lol because what are you gonna do? ABSTAIN?! Haha, silly me. 

 

I've heard NFP referenced several times on PM, and I knew it had something to do with tracking the temperature, mucous, or something. But wow, this is really cool actually. I'm definitely going to look into it. I didn't know it was so...scientific! :)

If you want to know more about Billings specifically, ArchaeologyCat is an instructor. I don't think she'd mind if you PM-ed her, as she's made the offer to people on other threads. But, yeah, most people (including many doctors) still have this idea that NFP is just a re-packaging of the rhythm method, which is not scientific. But Billings was developed by 2 doctors, and based completely on scientific research. As someone who loves biology, I thought it was really cool to learn about. I honestly recommend it to anyone as a way to get to know their body better, if nothing else! 

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If you want to know more about Billings specifically, ArchaeologyCat is an instructor. I don't think she'd mind if you PM-ed her, as she's made the offer to people on other threads. But, yeah, most people (including many doctors) still have this idea that NFP is just a re-packaging of the rhythm method, which is not scientific. But Billings was developed by 2 doctors, and based completely on scientific research. As someone who loves biology, I thought it was really cool to learn about. I honestly recommend it to anyone as a way to get to know their body better, if nothing else! 

Well, I must say, I am pleasantly surprised.

 

So this is how I started out the convo, because I KNOW my fiance:

 

"Honey, did you know that NFP is up to 99% effective if used properly? Just as much as the pill. It's not the rhythm method. And it doesn't have the side effects like migraines, moodiness (to which he raised his brow, lol) etc"

 

...

 

"As long as it's that effective and we don't have babies right now I am cool, I didn't know the pill was that bad for you."

 

I didn't know it'd be that easy. Of course, I didn't delve into the pro-life aspect or the faith aspect, but I had to plant the seed lol. 

 

He agreed that he wanted to take a class to learn how to "maximize effectiveness" (his words). He is a very sweet man. :) I am so lucky.

 

I'll look for something in my area, in person would be best for he and I. This is so cool! I am looking forward to learning more and more about it. I am quite sick of the pill, literally. (I know to abstain right now because we aren't married anyways...but soon!)

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Wow! I am glad it went so well! That is great! :like:

 I think the thing I love about him most is he just goes with the flow. I think God put us together because he puts up with the silly c.rap I throw at him on a quite regular basis. He also supports me through everything else; school, church hopping/disbelief, family drama, everything. He is one cool cat, I wish I were as calm and collected as he is.

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MissScripture

I found I chilled out a lot after I was done with school. I am way more laid back now than I used to be, and that isn't all that laid back. lol.

Also, you can probably find instructors or classes near you through your diocese or if you want to do Billings, you may be able to find an instructor near you: http://www.boma-usa.org/teachers.php

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Well the Creighton method and the Sympto-Thermal Method is offered in my diocese, Billings is offered in the middle of nowhere in my state. I don't even know where to start...umm...halp. We have 3 months to get this down pat!

 

What's nice is, my diocese offers 1 on 1 classes with couples. Free. And materials you can order for a $10 donation. So I think we will start when we move. I know it's weird, but my dad (not religious at all) would wonder what's going on, why are these people here? What is all this? And I am just not ready to explain. It's just weird talking about that with my dad anyways! 

 

Any good online reading I can start with? 

 

Would these people even come into our home when we are cohabiting?! It's just that he works two jobs, I work and go to school, it is late at night or very rare when we are home together at a reasonable hour, so classes are hard to make it to. Plus, his schedule is week by week.

Edited by zabbazooey
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MissScripture

Well the Creighton method and the Sympto-Thermal Method is offered in my diocese, Billings is offered in the middle of nowhere in my state. I don't even know where to start...umm...halp. We have 3 months to get this down pat!

 

What's nice is, my diocese offers 1 on 1 classes with couples. Free. And materials you can order for a $10 donation. So I think we will start when we move. I know it's weird, but my dad (not religious at all) would wonder what's going on, why are these people here? What is all this? And I am just not ready to explain. It's just weird talking about that with my dad anyways! 

 

Any good online reading I can start with? 

 

Would these people even come into our home when we are cohabiting?! It's just that he works two jobs, I work and go to school, it is late at night or very rare when we are home together at a reasonable hour, so classes are hard to make it to. Plus, his schedule is week by week.

Most NFP instructors I know are pretty willing to meet people where they are at, in the sense of they'll be willing to work with you despite the cohabitating, because even if they don't agree with it, you're making an effort.

 

I like Billings, but that's what was available where I was when I needed to learn it. I know my SIL does Creighton and prefers that over Billings. Also, Creighton is typically what the doctors have been taught if they are NFP only doctors (at least all the docs that I know that are NFP docs). I know sympto-thermal method is pretty widely used. Obviously there are some similarities between all of them (like my Creighton trained doctor could figure out both Billings and STM charts), but some people prefer one method over another for various reasons. 

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