Unity

[Dusty Fro]

St. Thomas More also helped to burn a few heretics at the stake. Go Tommy.

Actually I read his book Utopia and liked it a lot.

[Bruce S]

[quote name='Crusader_4' date='May 24 2004, 11:18 PM'] Let us stand in Union with our Brothers in Christ and share in our baptismal vows.  I have had enough of this endless babber about areas where we have no authority.  Therfore lets cool our tempers and let cooler heads prevail. 

[b]Here is a good old topic to debate whether or not [color=red]who is the greatest Saint?[/color]

I say Aquinas or Augustine or Ignatius...there are soo many who do you think and why? [/b]
[/quote]

You ARE aware, are you not, that SEEKING the most IMPORTANT of the "saints" is directly contrary to what Jesus taught, aren't you?

[quote]Mat 18:1 At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, [b]Who is [color=red]the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?[/color]  [/b]


Mat 18:2 And Jesus called a little child unto him, and set him in the midst of them, 


Mat 18:3 And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. 


[b] Mat 18:4 Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. [/b]


Mat 18:5 And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me. 


Mat 18:6 But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and [that] he were drowned in the depth of the sea. 


Mat 18:7 Woe unto the world because of offences! for it must needs be that offences come; but woe to that man by whom the offence cometh! 
[/quote]

Saints, in scripture, refers ONLY to living Christians, and THEY are taught, by the master Himself, to seek HUMILTY, not GREATNESS.

Nor, are WE to elevate them, for it dishonors them, and Jesus's teachings.

Neither while alive, and certainly not in heaven above after dying. Why should ONLY a few thousand DEAD Christians be worthy of respect, honor, and rememberance? There have been a few BILLION that have died in the good graces of God, and it is very safe to assume that there were a few million that had life stories that were edifying, and above average.

The "Saint System" as it is currently practiced, with JP II, churning out MORE new Saints, than ALL other Popes in history, is now riddled with oddities, and the most recent example, being Anne Catherine Emmerich, to be beatified, ONLY after her book was turned into a BEST seller by Hollywood and Mel Gibson's PASSION movie, is a prime example. Before this time, A.C.E., languished in obscurity, now she is a celebrity because of the movie.



FWIW, the Protestant ... and scriptural viewpoint on this matter.

Edited June 7, 2004 by Bruce S

[qfnol31]

Do you know what the definition of a "Saint" is vs. a "saint"?

By the way, Anne has been listed as venerable for a while. The case did not open with the movie and her book turning bestseller. That was just a mere coincidence.

You also need to read more St. Thomas Aquinas, or even Aristotle. I won't be fully myself until after I leave this earth (actually, after the resurrection of the body, but just about the same difference). Now I'm plagued with impurities and stuff...Anyway, my point is that we can't really be less living in Heaven. That's a contradiction and makes no sense. That's why I wonder why you refer to them as dead. Really, except for the fact that most have no body there, the souls in Heaven are much more alive than we are.

[Crusader_4]

Bruce S. I am not refering to the greatest Saint in that sense perhaps which Christian saint is your favourite or even the Saint that has had the most impact in Christiainty...its not who is the greatest in that pre Jesus messainic thinking...its more of admiring who we think is the greatest work of art. Who was it in our opinnons that demonstrated Christ the most to other followers...that is what i am getting at and if it wrong to think about that....then there are some issues its who do you think is a great role model...obvisouly we are not saying that Jesus is less since he sanctifiys all.

[Bruce S]

On that basis I go with "St." Paul.

Romans, and pride of denomination.

Those passages opened up a new realm for me.

But not, perhaps, in the way, one might expect them too.

[url="http://www.redemptoristpublications.com/reality/may04/churchpower.html"]http://www.redemptoristpublications.com/re...hurchpower.html[/url]

Edited June 8, 2004 by Bruce S

[Donna]

Wait a sec...anyone hear of the phrase "baptized Catholic"?

As in, "I cannot attend Mrs. so-and-so's wedding following her divorce; because she was baptized Catholic."

I, a baptized Lutheran, was not bound by Church law...until I became Catholic.

[Apotheoun]

"Wait a sec...anyone hear of the phrase 'baptized Catholic'? As in, 'I cannot attend Mrs. so-and-so's wedding following her divorce; because she was baptized Catholic.' I, a baptized Lutheran, was not bound by Church law...until I became Catholic."

Actually, because Protestantism broke away from the Catholic Church, Protestants are to varying degrees covered by the Latin Rite's [u]Code of Canon Law[/u]. This is particularly the case when the canons concern principles that are founded upon the natural moral law, but it can even be true in other cases, i.e., cases involving the validity of the sacraments and other theological issues. As an example, if two Protestants were married in a Protestant Church, and either one or the both of them deliberately excluded the requisite intention of remaining in a lifelong marriage, or if either of them lacked the proper intention as it concerns the procreation of children, such a marriage would be null. Later on, if one of them converted to Catholicism they could seek an annulment in the Catholic Church. Thus, various aspects of canon law do apply to Protestants: firstly, because they are baptized Christians and their baptism unites them to the Catholic Church, albeit imperfectly; and secondly, because all of the Protestant ecclesial communities descend in some way from the Catholic Church, and so their adherents are associated with the Catholic Church's Latin Rite canonical tradition, whether they know it or not.