Courting Vs. Dating

[Nihil Obstat]

Only the father? I think several major males in a woman's life should intimidate and interrogate the guy. At least that was my plan.

Luthien did that for me. :| I deserved it.

[GeorgiiMichael]

dating is casual

 

courtship is more about respecting yourself and the other person enough to take the time to get to know them more fully as well as their family and friends

 

 

 

in either case, if the guy isn't terrified of the father, yer doin it wrong

 

Like, I've said ad nauseum, definitions of dating and courting differ from person to person. Your definition of dating does not mesh at all with mine, which is why I've been stressing the importance of healthy, holy marriage discernment. Which includes but is not limited to frequent, open and honest communication, well established barriers, and prayer. Everyone's relationship is going to start and progress in different ways, but as long as those things are followed, things will be fine.

[HisChildForever]

dating is casual

 

courtship is more about respecting yourself and the other person enough to take the time to get to know them more fully as well as their family and friends

 

I disagree with this. Dating can be either casual or serious. In fact your definition of "courtship" is pretty much my relationship and I define that as dating or going out.

[Groo the Wanderer]

ah...relativism is alive

[Winchester]

Courting is when your intent in hanging out with someone and buying them stuff is for the purpose of tricking that someone into getting hitched. It's like dating, but more serious and creepy.

[Anastasia13]

Courting is when your intent in hanging out with someone and buying them stuff is for the purpose of tricking that someone into getting hitched. It's like dating, but more serious and creepy.

 

I still love you, Mr. French Model.

[Winchester]

I still love you, Mr. French Model.

 

Your taste remains remarkable.

[GeorgiiMichael]

ah...relativism is alive

 

...

 

It's MORAL relativism that's bad, mate. And you'll notice that I advocate for "healthy, holy marriage discernment", not "have the sex with everyone until you find one you like better than the rest marriage discernment."

 

Some things are relative. Your favorite food is not objectively the best food in the world. Your definitions for dating/courting are not objectively right either. 

[catholic3in1]

Like, I've said ad nauseum, definitions of dating and courting differ from person to person. Your definition of dating does not mesh at all with mine, which is why I've been stressing the importance of healthy, holy marriage discernment. Which includes but is not limited to frequent, open and honest communication, well established barriers, and prayer. Everyone's relationship is going to start and progress in different ways, but as long as those things are followed, things will be fine.

 I agree with what you are saying. It makes total sense to me! Great point.

[Groo the Wanderer]

so yer saying you want your daughter running around snorging every cute guy she sees that happens to also find her attractive?

 

snorging = locking lips

[Maggyie]

Put me in the category of thinking there's not necessarily a difference between "dating" and "courting."

 

Casual dating is not necessarily wrong, either. In fact I think there should be no other kind of "dating" in high school. That is the stage where there should be chaperones or large groups, no one-on-one encounters. BUT I really don't think courting is appropriate for teenagers to engage in, as that's not a time in life when most people are able to accurately choose a good spouse. And just because a suitor passes the morality smell test and you "love him" as a teenager doesn't mean he won't make you miserable in marriage. It takes maturity to choose a spouse and its not a choice parents can make very well for their children, either. The teenage years are when you can gradually learn to relate to the opposite sex in a new, romantic/adult way under the watchful eye of parents and teachers.

 

I waited until after college to date/search for a husband and it would have really bothered me if I had been chaperoned or expected not to kiss lest temptation get me. Yes temptation is an issue but as a fully sexually mature adult I have full control of myself. There's a difference between a 15 year old being alone with a guy and a 23 year old. Or there should be. I went on my first "date" at age 23 and I got engaged at age 25.

 

If you have decided you are at the point in your life when you want to find someone to discern marriage with, just be very clear that is your main interest in dating someone. Yes that will scare a lot of guys off, especially guys your age (early 20s) but it won't scare of the guys who are ALSO interested in discerning marriage at this point. They want to evaluate you in that regard, too. You don't have to call it courting, just be honest and open about your dating goals.

[HisChildForever]

so yer saying you want your daughter running around snorging every cute guy she sees that happens to also find her attractive?

 

snorging = locking lips

 

...How on earth did you reach this conclusion?

[Anastasia13]

so yer saying you want your daughter running around snorging every cute guy she sees that happens to also find her attractive?

 

snorging = locking lips

 

I plan on teaching my daughter very good knowledge related to this. For example:

- Oral herpes exists dear. If you go around sticking your tongue in every guys mouth, you might catch something.

-Not everyone that looks good has a good heart.  You should take the time to know what kind of person someone is, not just who you think that person is, to know if he is really attractive.

- Not every guy who looks cute deserves the precious person that she is, and being so undiscriminating disrespects the value she has to offer and a lovely (inside and out) young woman made by God for something special.

- If you hang on to the wrong guy too much when it won't work out, then you might miss someone amazing who you might match well and work out with as a couple.

 

And of course that if she values a guy's life, she will not let him take off her clothing without a wedding ring and the dozen or so reasons for this beyond the difficulties he will have with myself and her father.

Edited January 26, 2013 by Light and Truth

[Maggyie]

And of course that if she values a guy's life, she will not let him take off her clothing without a wedding ring and the dozen or so reasons for this beyond mommy's NRA membership and daddy's aim.

 

You see I don't approve of this attitude, it's a an awful joke from bad romantic comedies and has origins in the horrifying "tradition" of forced marriage where if it became clear a woman had lost her virginity, she had her partner had no choice but to marry... at the point of a shotgun if necessary. Because at that point no other man would take her. Would you actually engage in violence with a boy who sinned with your daughter? Would you also threaten to murder your son's gf if they went too far? After all purity is just as important in your son as it is in your daughter.

 

And would you threaten to murder your child as well if they "brought shame" to the family? After all unless it was a case of rape, the decision to have sex is one both partners make together. In spite of stereotypes most daughters are not empty-headed dolls who can be "tricked" into losing their virginity or otherwise sinning by scheming, horny boys who Want Only One Thing.

[Anastasia13]

You see I don't approve of this attitude, it's a an awful joke from bad romantic comedies and has origins in the horrifying "tradition" of forced marriage where if it became clear a woman had lost her virginity, she had her partner had no choice but to marry... at the point of a shotgun if necessary. Because at that point no other man would take her. Would you actually engage in violence with a boy who sinned with your daughter? Would you also threaten to murder your son's gf if they went too far? After all purity is just as important in your son as it is in your daughter.

 

And would you threaten to murder your child as well if they "brought shame" to the family? After all unless it was a case of rape, the decision to have sex is one both partners make together. In spite of stereotypes most daughters are not empty-headed dolls who can be "tricked" into losing their virginity or otherwise sinning by scheming, horny boys who Want Only One Thing.

 

I would never genuinely threaten to murder anyone like that, otherwise I would never have said that, but would make clear that if this was a practice they chose to engage in and did not at least try to do better that that, we would not be pleased.  I specified daughter because a previous poster has specified daughter. This in fact goes for both genders, though I have gotten the impression that this can be more of a temptation for guys. And as a daughter, I am well aware that we are not empty headed dolls, and mine will be taught well and learn to think for herself in a myriad of things.

 

As for the sex being a decision that both make, that is why I would teach her about a dozen or so other reasons beyond that. Here is a list I recently got from a public health counselor:

 

1) Financial: women especially benefit by delaying sexual onset. Both genders benefit demonstrably by delaying past the early stage (teen/young adult).

2) Emotional: humans come wired to increase intimacy via physical contact (sex being the strongest such stimulus). Girls especially but males as well find the desolution of sexual relationships - especially the first - emotionally far more devastating than non-sexual relationships. The psyche you save may be your own - or your less emotionally able partner that you supposedly cared about.

3) Social: Oddly enough, though the stigma is much less apparent, both peers and superiors (any authority figure) view sexually active persons differently from their counterparts and that view is usually negative if the couple is not married. Boss may never say a word - but may well judge you in a more negative light than a coworker - even when the boss him/herself is sexually active outside marriage. Teachers, parents, coaches, elders - extramarital sex can and will affect relationships around the couple and the standing of the individuals in a given group. There's a reason the S word is still used as an insult - and yes, that label does mean something.

4) STD: There's no such thing as a 'mild' STD - they just vary in how much damage they happen to do - or ultimately can do. We can cure chlamydia - but not the HIV that it facilitates the transmission of via co-infection (this is probably a leading factor in heterosexual transmission - research tends to focus on homosexual transmission) or
the damage done to both male and female reproductive systems. Hint: the 80's infertility epidemic and the 60's 'free love' movement were NOT unrelated.

5) Studies show that the earlier a person begins having sex the less successful they are likely to be in life. The relationship to other social ills (drugs, alcohol, poverty, mental illness/depression) is likely both correlative and causative to varying degrees in a specific subject.

6) Mental health: depression, anxiety, self esteem issues, ad infinitum - more than a few relate to and/or are caused by extramarital sex, especially early onset.

7) Pregnancy: Just 'cause you can terminate it doesn't mean it isn't significant. Even ending in abortion the trauma is destructive (arguably the abortion is even more destructive to the woman). Having babies you aren't ready for isn't exactly a picnic, either. And to state the obvious, being killed is bad for the baby. Add youth to the mix and you get a host of medical issues that can result from a child trying to do a woman's job.

8) Physical damage: in early onset this is a very real possibility. Not only are young girls more susceptible to STD infection (because the cervix is not yet up to the job of protecting them as it should) their organs are vulnerable to damage as they undergo forces they simply are not ready for (you do not need that explained, do you?). A lot goes on in the adolescent years as the body converts from child to adult -  teens, no matter what they think, are not little adults.

9) Spiritual: (atheists see Psychological) God isn't a cosmic rules monger - His rules have reasons whether or not we understand them. Sex in its proper place (marriage) is a wonderful thing - outside that place it is destructive spiritually as well as mentally and physically. The teen rebel thing isn't actually cute and that kind of rebelliousness against God damages our relationship with Him.

 

10) Abuse: I've left this out thus far although it obviously colors all the others when present. Not all sexual relationships are or will become abusive but being sexually active seems to increase the risk. Regardless, adding sex to an abusive situation doesn't do anything good and does do plenty bad making things even worse on the victim. [This may be less likely an issue for her, but it is still a reason that was on the list and was seemed like a good one.]
 

This of course in addition to:

a statistic I read a few years ago about 1 on 4 or 5 people gets an STD,

relationships stop growing as much once the relationship becomes sexual,

or the lack of respect for the person and the relationship when you jump into something sexual

And of course scripture (and church) tells us to not fornicate.

 

I hate to say it because it sounds corny and short sighted, but really, when considering the reasons to wait to be married (and at least somewhat ready for it) and then have sex, it's not just about whether or not parents approve, it really is loving to wait, to ones self and to the other.  My future children will need to understand things like this before they can do anything serious with dating, and I plan on letting my future 16 year olds date a little (and I wish I had had the chance instead of being taught to take everything in dating so seriously from before I had the first date or chance to really hang out with someone), but they will not be allowed to get too serious yet-if they are meant to be, they can keep in touch in high schoo and it will last after high school.