Why I Am No Longer An Atheist Part 2

[Era Might]

Besides, the Church's primary purpose is spiritual - to provide the Sacraments, and hand down the teachings necessary for salvation, rather than to create some kind of earthly socio-economic utopia.

I don't look to the church to create a socio-economic utopia, nor a spiritual utopia. But I also don't accept the idea the the church's mission is to be the spiritual big brother. Modern service institutions were first preceded by the church, which used the sacraments and its spiritual monopoly to keep everyone within institutional reach. Before there was big government, there was big church. What we know as "the church" is the Gospel institutionalized. The "great commission" given by Christ is to announce to everyone their "moment of visitation," and if necessary, to shake the dust from your feet and move on. The church offers an entrenched institution, not a moment of visitation. And perhaps one could argue that the church is a mystical body, not identified with any particular moment in history. And that's well and good, but it's not the official narrative of the church, and I can't go on believing in a fantasy Christianity that ceased to exist in the first century. And I say that not because I long for some ideal church...I would rather the church cease to exist than that it became what it has become.

 

Though I think there can be no denying that if every Catholic always wholeheartedly followed all the moral teachings of the Church, the world would be a much better place.

I deny that, because I don't believe Christianity has anything to do with a catalogue of moral teachings. That's what the Mosaic law was about. Christianity is (or is supposed to be) something different, as the Rich Young Man in the Gospel learned. (And before you try to defend moral principles, take a second and think about what I said...I am not challenging moral principles).

 

You know the commandments: `Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.'" And he said to him, "Teacher, all these I have observed from my youth." And Jesus looking upon him loved him, and said to him, "You lack one thing; go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me." At that saying his countenance fell, and he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions.

--Mark 10:19-22

 

 

 

(I would also argue, that overall, that even from an earthly perspective, the Church has done much good in the world, though I'm aware you likely disagree.)

I don't know, maybe it has, but I don't believe that's the church's mission, to do much good in the world. Oscar Wilde expresses this in his piece "De Profundis":

 

But it is when he deals with a sinner that Christ is most romantic, in the sense of most real. The world had always loved the saint as being the nearest possible approach to the perfection of God. Christ, through some divine instinct in him, seems to have always loved the sinner as being the nearest possible approach to the perfection of man. His primary desire was not to reform people, any more than his primary desire was to a relieve suffering. To turn an interesting thief into a tedious honest man was not his aim. He would have thought little of the Prisoners' Aid Society and other modern movements of the kind. The conversion of a publican into a Pharisee would not have seemed to him a great achievement. But in a manner not yet understood of the world he regarded sin and suffering as being in themselves beautiful holy things and modes of perfection.

 

Edited January 25, 2013 by Era Might

[catholic3in1]

SO I admit I didn't read every single response, but skimmed over it (read a good amount) so please excuse me if I say something already said. 

 

My little sister once answered my question: "God, why do you allow us to suffer, and hurt?". She said, "If we didn't have pain, or trials, then we wouldn't be on earth, we would already be in Heaven. There would be no point to earth."

 

Well to answer the initial post, I found this randomly one day, and it touched me enough that I saved it to my comp:

 

 

SUFFERING 

How to make the Greatest Evil in Our Lives Our Greatest Happiness

 

by Fr. Paul O' Sullivan, O.P.

 

          Suffering is the great problem of human life.  We all have to suffer. Sometimes small sorrows, sometimes greater ones fall to share. We shall now tell our readers how to avoid much of this suffering, how to lessen all suffering, and how to derive great benefits from every suffering we may have to bear.

          The reason why suffering appears so hard is that, first of all, we are not taught what suffering is. Secondly, we are not taught how to bear it. Thirdly, we are taught the priceless value of suffering. This is due to the incomprehensible neglect on the part of our teachers.

          It is surprising how easily some people bear great sufferings; whereas, others get excited even at the smallest trouble. The simplest reason is that some have been taught all about suffering; others have not.

SUFFERING IS NOT THE EVIL WE THINK IT IS

        First of all, then, suffering is not simply an evil, for no one suffered more than the Son of God Himself, more than His Blessed Mother or more than the Saints.  Every suffering comes from God. It may appear to come to us by chance or accident or from someone else, but in reality, every suffering comes to us from God. Nothing happens to us without His wish or permission.  Not even a hair falls from our heads without His consent.

          Why does God allow us to suffer?  Simply because He is asking us to take a little share in His Passion. What appears to come by chance or from someone else always comes because God allows it. Every act in Our Lord’s Life was a lesson for us. The greatest act in His life was His Passion.  This, the, is the greatest lesson for us. It teaches us that we too must suffer.

          God suffered all the dreadful pains of His Passion for each one of us.  How can we refuse to suffer a little for love of Him?

SUFFERING IS THE GOLD IN OUR LIVES

        Secondly, if we accept the suffering He sends us and offer them in union with His sufferings, we receive the greatest rewards.  Five minutes’ suffering borne for love of Jesus is of greater value to us than years and years of pleasure and joy.  The Saints tell us that if we patiently bear our sufferings, we merit the crown of martyrdom.

          Moreover, suffering borne patiently brings out all that is good in us.  Those who have suffered are usually the most charming people.  If we bear these factors clearly in mind, it certainly becomes much easier to suffer.

GOD ALWAYS GIVES STRENGTH TO BEAR OUR SUFFERINGS

        Thirdly, when God gives us an suffering, He always gives us strength to bear it, if we only ask Him.  Many, instead of asking for His help, get excited and revolt.  It is this excitement and impatience that really makes suffering hard to bear.

          Consider that we are now speaking of all suffering, even the most trifling ones.  All of us have little troubles, pains, disappointments, every day of our lives.  All these, if borne for love of God, obtain for us, as we have said, the greatest rewards.

HOW TO BEAR SUFFERING

        Even the greater sufferings that may fall to our share from time to time become easy to bear if we accept them with serenity, and patience.  What really makes suffering difficult to bear is our own impatience, our revolt, our refusal to accept it.  This irritation increases our sufferings a hundredfold and, besides, robs us of all the merit we could have gained thereby.

          We see some people pass through a tempest of suffering with the greatest calm and serenity; whereas, others get irritated at the slightest annoyance or disappointment.  We can all learn this calm and patience.  It is the secret of happiness.

          An eminent physician, in a conference which he gave to distinguished scientists and fellow doctors, told them that he owed all his great success in life to the simple fact that he had corrected his habit for impatience and annoyance, which had been destroying all his energy and activity.

          Everyone, we repeat, without exception, can learn this calm and serenity.

PENANCE

        We must all do penance for our sins.  If we do not, we shall have long years of suffering in the awful fires of Purgatory.  This fire is just the same as the fire of Hell.

          Now, if we offer our sufferings the very little ones- in union with the sufferings of Jesus Christ, we are doing the easiest and best penance we can perform.  We may thus deliver ourselves entirely from Purgatory, while at the same time gaining the greatest graces and blessings.

Let us remember clearly that:

1)     Sufferings come from God for our benefit.

2)     When we are in the state of grace, we derive immense merit from every suffering borne patiently, even the little sufferings of our daily lives.

3)     God will give us abundant strength to bear our sufferings if only we ask Him.

4)     If we bear our sufferings patiently, they lose their sting and bitterness.

5)     Above all, every suffering is a share in the Passion of Our Lord.

6)     By our sufferings, we can free ourselves in great part, or entirely, from the pains of Purgatory.

7)     By bearing our sufferings patiently, we win the glorious crown or martyrdom.

Of course, we may do all in our power to avoid or lessen our sufferings, but we cannot avoid all suffering. Therefore, it is clearly necessary for us to learn how to bear them.

          In a word, we must understand clearly that if we remain calm, serene and patient, suffering loses all its sting, but the moment we get excited, the smallest suffering increases a hundredfold.

          It is just as if we had a sore arm or leg and rubbed it violently; it would become irritated and painful; whereas, if we touch it gently, we soothe the irritation.

          We suffer from ill-health, from ill-health, from pains, headaches, rheumatism, arthritis, from accidents, from enemies.  We may have financial difficulties. Some suffer for weeks in their homes, some in hospitals or nursing homes.  In a word, we are in a vale of tears.  Almighty God could have saved us from all suffering, but He did not do so because He knows in His infinite goodness that suffering is good for us.

 

PRAYER

        We have a great, great remedy in our hands, that is, prayer.  We should pray earnestly and constantly, asking God to help us to suffer, to console us, or if it pleases Him, to deliver us from suffering.  This is all, all important.

          A very eminent doctor, in an able article he recently published in the secular press, says that “Prayer is the greatest power in the world.”  He says, “I and my colleagues frequently see that many of our patients, whom we have failed to cure or whose pains we have failed to alleviate, have cured themselves by prayer.  I speak now not of the prayers of holy people, but the prayers of ordinary Christians.”

          We should abover all pray to Our Lady of Sorrows in all our troubles.  We should ask her, by the oceans of sorrow she felt during the Passion of Our Lord, to help us.

          God gave her all the immense graces necessary to make her the perfect Mother of God, but also gave her all the graces, the tenderness, the love necessary to be our most perfect and loving Mother.  No mother on earth ever loved a child as Our Blessed lady loves us.  Therefore, in all our troubles and sorrows, let us go to Our Blessed Lady with unbounded confidence.

 

THE MEMORARE

REMEMBER, O most gracious Virgin Mary, that never was it known that anyone who fled to thy protection, implored thy help, or sought thy intercession was left unaided. Inspired with this confidence, I fly to thee, O Virgin of virgins, my Mother; to thee do I come; before thee I stand, sinful and sorrowful. O Mother of the Word Incarnate, despise not my petitions, but in thy mercy hear and answer me. Amen.

 

copies of this leaflet available from:

Holy Wounds Apostolate, Inc.

P.O. Box 937 Wisonsin Rapids, WI 54495

100-$5.00 1,000-$20.00

Price includes Shipping and Handling.

(Send a check or money order)

 

"Trusting in God doesn't work as a remedy for problems, it helps you get through them. The hard thing is trusting in Him when we can't feel Him there at all, but that's when trust is needed."

 

"God is not what you imagine…or what you think you understand. If you do understand, you have failed.” -St. Augustine

 

It is better to believe in a God that does not exist, because you have nothing to lose and everything to gain, than to not believe in a God that does exist because then you have everything to lose and nothing to gain. 

[Socrates]

 

I don't look to the church to create a socio-economic utopia, nor a spiritual utopia. But I also don't accept the idea the the church's mission is to be the spiritual big brother. Modern service institutions were first preceded by the church, which used the sacraments and its spiritual monopoly to keep everyone within institutional reach. Before there was big government, there was big church. What we know as "the church" is the Gospel institutionalized. The "great commission" given by Christ is to announce to everyone their "moment of visitation," and if necessary, to shake the dust from your feet and move on. The church offers an entrenched institution, not a moment of visitation. And perhaps one could argue that the church is a mystical body, not identified with any particular moment in history. And that's well and good, but it's not the official narrative of the church, and I can't go on believing in a fantasy Christianity that ceased to exist in the first century. And I say that not because I long for some ideal church...I would rather the church cease to exist than that it became what it has become.

We've been over this before, and I don't have time or patience to rehash it all.

The Gospels and other New Testament Scripture make clear that Christ did in fact intend to establish a Church, and He gave the leaders of this Church charisms of authority.

 

I disagree with the idea that the first century church was some sort of big disorganized egalitarian hippie commune with no "institutional" structure or authority.

 

The purpose of the Church is to correctly hand down the teachings of the Faith, and provide the Sacraments; it's about saving souls.

However, there's no guarantee that Church clergy will always act in a Christlike manner, nor that they will have political wisdom.  The Church is infallible in her teachings, but members of the Church are not inpeccable.

 

 

 

I deny that, because I don't believe Christianity has anything to do with a catalogue of moral teachings. That's what the Mosaic law was about. Christianity is (or is supposed to be) something different, as the Rich Young Man in the Gospel learned. (And before you try to defend moral principles, take a second and think about what I said...I am not challenging moral principles).

 

--Mark 10:19-22

 

I'm not sure exactly what you are saying here.

Yes, Christianity is much, much, more than simply a catalogue of moral teachings, but you can't separate moral teachings from the Christian Faith.  If you doubt me, read the Sermon on the Mount.

 

Or let me put it this way - I don't think your problems with the Church have anything to do with people practicing the Faith.  If everyone in the Church truly lived their faith, the world would be a better place.

 

Canonized saints are those people who are held up by the Church as exemplary in following Christ - and many of the saints did in fact give up everything - up to and including their lives - to follow Christ.

 

 

I don't know, maybe it has, but I don't believe that's the church's mission, to do much good in the world. Oscar Wilde expresses this in his piece "De Profundis":

 

I'm still not sure what you believe the Church's mission is, but most of your criticism of it seems to be because you think the Church does not do enough good in the world, or that you think it does too much bad.